Ich with possible secondary parasitic infection?

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conniedearest

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
19
Location
Tuscaloosa, AL
Overview of current tank:

10 gallons, Freshwater, and 81 F Degrees.
Inhabitants: 1 Algae Eater, 2 White Skirt Tetras, 2 Neon Tetras, 1 Dwarf Gourami, 1 Balloon Belly Mollie (Male), 2 Fancy Guppies (1 male, 1 female).
Plants: 1 live plant (unsure of what it really is, since a friend gave it to me from her tank).

Problem:

I suppose, I'll start when I had my first fish die. I initially had two Balloon Belly Mollies, the other was a female. She died about a week and a half ago. I'm not sure how it happened or the exact details other than I found her corpse stuck on the filter. When I scooped her out, her fins had been nipped at, and it looked like rigor mortis had set in her eyes. Shortly, I flushed her down the toilet. I only owned this female mollie for about 10 days.

Five days later, I noticed that there where tiny white spots on some of my fishes fins and tails. Those that were infected included 2 White Skirt Tetras and 2 Neon Tetras. I started the treatment immediately by raising the temperature, removing the carbon from the filter (Tetra PF 10), and adding Ich drops with the proper instructions from the bottle. Every two days, I repeated the drops. The infection hasn't spread anywhere that I've noticed but has mostly disappeared from all except from one white skirt tetra. He has a white spot on his back dorsal fin, which was there from the initial infection, and that has not yet disappeared. About three days ago, I saw my male mollie rub himself against the decor, which made me repeat the dose of ich, but he hasn't had any visible signs of ich. Most of them have been acting normally as well when treatment was started. Also, after 48 hours from initial treatment, I added more drops, waited another 48 hours, and did a 25% water change with a "stress relief dechlorinator." I also purchased an air pump because I read somewhere that aeration can help with the healing process?

Today, my female guppie as I noticed also started rubbing herself against the gravel and certain decor, which prompted me to add more anti-ich drops (it was at the 48 hour mark again). She is the only one that's been acting differently. She's been hiding in certain corners (particularly behind the thermostat) and hasn't really been all that sociable, except for during feedings. The male is most likely always with her, so when she's hiding, so he is. However, I'm also under the suspicion that she's possibly pregnant too. To me, she's been bigger than normal (almost looks bloated) and her gravid spot is very visible. She's a blondie, so her gravid spot is bright red with some dark areas in it. Also, two days ago, she had her fin nipped by one of the others...not sure who, but my suspicion is under one of the white skirts or the gourami. But it has pretty much healed since then (much to my surprise how quick that was).

Lastly, the newest symptom that I've seen, is the female guppie's feces. It's stringy and white, not like the others. The only other fish that I've seen that has had white feces is the algae eater, but it's not stringy. It's just white and thick, but I assumed that would be normal for the algae eater, since all he does is eat algae? But I haven't noticed any abnormal behaviors from him. He goes to work, hides somewhere, or posts up somewhere on one of the tank walls.

For now, I have both the female and male guppie inside the tank but quarantined inside a fish net mesh box. I've only separated them for about an hour now? And, the female is much more active, probably because I stirred her up for the transition. At this current moment, she's currently chasing him.

I haven't tested the water levels yet because quite frankly, I'm not sure what kind of water testing kit I should get? I don't have a problem with spending a fair amount of money on it as long as I know it's going to work and be accurate. And, I have been feeding the fish tetra flakes and the guppies, sometimes, get guppy food. I give them the occasional freeze-dried blood worm, and algae pellets for the algae eater.

Okay, so basically, this is my current struggle. Where do I go about the treatment now? I read online that stringy, white feces is a sign of a internal parasitic infection? And, I also haven't added a new filter back in the tank yet. Where do I go from here? Is it okay to do that or should I wait until I start the treatment for anti-parasitic meds? Is this something even to worry about?

I apologize if I sound frantic! I'm currently in exam week in nursing school, and instead of studying, I'm sitting here and worrying about my babies, haha. Any tips and advice is greatly appreciated! I could use all the help I can get at this point.

EDIT: oops! Didn't mean to post this twice! I was trying to add pictures and then thought my thread got deleted somehow last night but instead it just went missing and came back. Sorry! Pictures to be en route...
 
Just got a water testing kit.

Water levels are:

pH - 7.5
Total Alkalinity - 180
Total Hardness - 70
Nitrite - 1
Nitrate - 40
Ammonia Levels - 3.0

My ammonia levels are incredibly high. Should I got ahead and do a water change without a filter?
 
You need to address your water quality asap. The amount of ammonia and nitrite present is enough to make any fish flash (rub) and act strangely. You need to bring your ammonia and nitrite down to .25ppm or preferably less. Water changes with temperature matched, properly conditioned water are needed. Ill post a link to fish-in cycling below- please ask if you have questions!

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice
 
Ahh, thank you! This explains so much. Looks like I'll have to double the trip back to the petstore for more water testing supplies. But, I just did partial water change. And, I still don't have a filter in my tank because the store ran out. But, I'll probably be using an old filter from a friend's tank, where her fish are completely healthy to help with the cycling.

I also bought an antiparasitic medication...should I just hold off on that until I resolve this issue first?

Also, is it beneficial to buy more live plants at this time to help seed the tank? or anything else that will put more added bacteria in the tank?

And feeding them...should I not feed them for two days to decrease the ammonia levels as well?
 
No anti parasite meds- work on getting your water conditions under control. If there are still issues after they have had a chance to recover with healthy water, then other meds can be considered.

Add plants anytime you want. Fast growing plants such as wisteria, hornwort or duckweed can with help with toxins. You can feed once a day but keep it minimal and make sure all food is consumed. If needed, you can reduce this to every other day until your tank is cycled. :)
 
No anti parasite meds- work on getting your water conditions under control. If there are still issues after they have had a chance to recover with healthy water, then other meds can be considered.

Add plants anytime you want. Fast growing plants such as wisteria, hornwort or duckweed can with help with toxins. You can feed once a day but keep it minimal and make sure all food is consumed. If needed, you can reduce this to every other day until your tank is cycled. :)

I agree with getting your tank cycled and filtered first. I don't agree that meds are a bad route like most do but I do agree that they should ONLY be utilized in a well cycled tank in which is accompanied by routine water changes. This is based off of my own experience and relatives who are avid reef keepers. Anyway, get yourself a nice filter (I'm pro canister!) and get those ammonia and nitrite levels down ASAP. Fast growing plants as mentioned are a good idea so avoid anubias, swords, etc. Cycling is about WC's and patience so let nature run its course.
 
Thanks! I just did another test and the ammonia levels have decreased, and I haven't seen any more flashing as well. I also did another partial water change on top of that...about 25%. I'll either test it again later tonight or tomorrow and keep up with it. I even increased the air pump, so the aeration in the tank has also improved.

And, in that case, I'll definitely be looking into getting some more plants to help with the process. I haven't had any casualties yet, so I'm hoping it'll stay that way!
 
I ended up purchasing wisteria and water sprite for the aquarium, and my ammonia levels are now < 1.0, so I'm still keeping an eye on that. But ALL of the fish have improved. They seem very much less irritated and much more happy to swim about. I noticed some of the gills were incredibly red, and I assume that's from the high ammo levels? Hopefully, that'll heal with time.

I also had hornwort in the tank, but it was melting due to the water levels from what I assume, so I ended up removing it, but I'm trying to nourish it back to life in a bowl filled with water right now.

The only thing that's left me concerned is the pH level which is 5.5, not sure why it was lowered with the water changes, but is it okay to add baking soda to the tank (minimally, of course)?
 
Thats great that everyone is starting to improve! Make sure you keep your ammonia/nitrite levels at or below .25ppm (unless your using Prime or Amquel Plus, then you will have a bit more wiggle room as they help detox amm/nitrite).

What are you testing your ph with? The API test only reads to 6- thats the low limit on the test. Can you please also test your tap water and post the results to help figure out if its a tap or tank issue? Start by testing your ph straight from the tap. Then put some tap in a container with a bubbler/airstone. If you dont have an extra, give the water a good stir every hour or so to help release dissolved gasses. Check the ph in 24hrs. Please post your ph levels for both tests. Thanks!
 
Please, I should be thanking you for helping me!

And I actually just received the API master kit in the mail. The previous water tests were based on the strips, which I realize now is absolutely incorrect and useless. And, the strip was the one that read the pH level as more acidic. Anyways, these results are with the API kit:

pH 7.6
Ammonia 0.25 - 0.5
Nitrite 2 -5
Nitrate 10 - 20

Those are in ranges because I really cannot tell the difference between the colors. I even tried comparing them against a white background, and it was still difficult for me to decide between the two.

The pH level for the tap water is 6.6.

There's still some of the occasional flashing of the fish, but not as bad as initially. I'll just do another partial water change and test the levels again later to see if they've improved. At my LFS, I was told that adding the stress-zyme would help improve the cycle. Is this true?
 
Yep, you need to do some water changes! There's a bit of interpretation involved with the test results and some areas are a bit vague such as high nitrites. Once it hits 2, it's pretty hard to tell between 2 and 5 though either is really too high for fish. If you notice the blue drops turning purple before they hit the bottom of the tube or at the bottom before shaking, then your nitrites are in the 5(+) range.

The stress zyme is a bottled bacteria type product. I personally have not used them but I know some people (not everyone) have had success with Dr Tim's One and Only and Tetras Safe Start. Your welcome to give them a try! ;)
 
:) Thank you again! And success! My ammonium and nitrite levels have all gone down to 0 today. I'll keep checking every day for another week to make sure it's stabilized.
 
That's great news! Continue to check your parameters to make sure everything stays stable. You will still need to do decent sized weekly water changes even if everything reads zero. :)
 
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