is he asleep?

[sweetsuvvyb]

Hey y'all -

I've been having some concerns about my red cap oranda. Firstly, he lost a number of scales being overly-rambunctious in the gravel...I changed the aquarium set-up a bit (there's a swim-through cave he really likes...but he's getting too big for it..so I set it up so there's a little more room), and did a salt treatment while the scales healed.

Now he seems to be suffering from a severe case of lethargy...actually LAYING on the gravel (which I've never seen him do). I thought maybe he was a little backed up...so i did peas, and then fasting for 2 days. Poop looks normal. But he's just sitting there! In the corner!

When I walk up to the tank, he'll swim up...but then goes back to sitting. I don't see any ich, or any other sign of infection...breathing seems normal, and his other tank buddies are chipper as usual.

Any ideas? Tank params are normal (no NH3 or NO2, 'ates around 20).

Thanks guys!

[Allivymar]

Weirdness!

I wonder if he's having swim bladder probs? I grabbed this from www.fish-disease.com :

"Swim Bladder Disorder

The Swim bladder is a gas-filled sac located inside the fish’s body cavity just above most of the other internal organs. This sac is what gives the fish buoyancy and controls equilibrium. The amount of gas in this sac changes as the fish rises and sinks in the water, enabling it to swim, hover and move in the water. Without the use of the Swim-bladder organ a fish is unable to control it's own movements.

Symptoms:

Fish with a swim bladder disorder appear to have an abnormal swimming pattern, usually with their tail end up. They also appear to have difficulty maintaining equilibrium. They may even float upside down or appear to be stuck at the surface of the water, being unable to swim down, or they may lie on the bottom, unable to rise. Fish with a swim bladder disorder will continue to try and feed, showing a normal appetite.

Cause:

The most common cause of swim bladder disorders is improper diet. An improper diet can lead to intestinal gas or intestinal blockages. Intestinal blockages can irritate the bowel, giving bacteria or other parasites an entry point where they can then cause damage to the swim bladder. Swim bladder disorders are most common in the larger, deep-bodied varieties of Goldfish. Fish also fed a lot of dried foods, especially pellets, are most susceptible. This condition is frequently observed in the later stages of Malawi Bloat, which is primarily due to an improper diet as well and intestinal irritation.

Treatment:

Because this disorder is due principally to an improper diet, a change in their feeding needs to be made. Dried foods with lots of protein should be kept to a minimum. Pellets and other dense foods should be soaked prior to feeding or completely eliminated from their diet. Foods with lots of fiber should be introduced, such as zucchini, squash, spinach, romaine lettuce, peas, and grated carrots. If you suspect that the fish is victim to a bacterial infection, treat the fish with a medicated food."

It almost sounds like your guy is in the initial stages of a swim bladder problem...he is still able to move himself about with some control, but unable to remain neutrally bouyant. I dunno..its just a guess. Was the only thing that came to mind that seemed to have some bearing on the situation.

[sweetsuvvyb]

Thats what i thought initially, that he hadn't been getting enough veggies and was just gas-y LOL....the problem is (Well, isn't), when he swims, he's swimming perfectly normally! In fact...after a water and filter change this afternoon, he's really perked up (and is back to tearing apart the aquarium decor)...maybe there was something yucky in the water (the filter was getting pretty nasty, maybe the AC released something?).

Guess I'll just have to keep an eye on things...maybe do more veggies for a few days...

Thanks for your input

[Allivymar]

Anytime Glad to hear he's back on his...erm...fins LOL

[Capt.Gorilla]

Hey, just to tag on to this, is it alright to give smushed canned peas, everywhere I read they say to use frozen.

[Allivymar]

Rinse em really really well. Canned peas are usually packed with salt.

[Capt.Gorilla]

Right-o.

[Mr502go]

Glad El capitain is back to his old self again!!! Poor lil feller, hmm that's weird. How long had u'r filter been in there??

<------ taking notes

[Terry]

Glad to here that your little chap is back to normal, just thought i would share this with you, i read it the other day.
It was an article on swimbladder problems and the guy that wrote it was saying that a lot of more rounded fish like Oranda's look like they have swimbladder prob's when infact is is just that they have eaten to much. he was saying that when they eat to much, the food pushes against the swim bladder and until that fish has digested the food he may turn upside down or SIT on the bottom of the tank.

just an idea.

[Mr502go]

. . . you did say the lil porkchop had a smorgasboard a few days ago.

El Capitain. . . "Ohhh, mom told me I was gonna have a tummy ache. . . oh wait gas. . . ahhh relief at last" *bubbles float to top*

[sweetsuvvyb]

LOL

Thanks for the info Terry...He IS definitely the pig of the aquarium family. I do think as well, a lot of the dried foods expand in the belly...i should probably suck it up and start soaking 'em before i feed. It was definitely somewhat unsettling to see my fish literally sitting on the bottom of the tank.

I'm not actually sure how long the filter had been in there...just know that it wan't really rinse-worthy anymore.

ps. when i got the goldies, I named them fred rogers (The fantail) and mister mcfeely (the oranda). Wasn't too long afterward that my roomates were calling mister mcfeely "FatA$$".