Is my Ich problem resolved

[thatlouguy]

Hello again everyone.

I've been treating an Ich problem for the last 5 days on the advice from my LFS and the great people on this site. I raised the temp to 86, removed the charcoal from my filter and have been using 15 drops of Quick Cure each day. I'm happy to report that there is no visible sign of the disease on any fish, they are all eating well and they all seem frisky and happy. My question is, how can I be sure the disease is gone? When should I stop medicating, repalce the charcoal and begin to gradually lower the temperature back to the normal of 80?

Another topic of concern is the discoloration of one of my Rainbow sharks. The fish seems to have areas of its body that appear to be getting lighter. I hadn't noticed it before yesterday. The fish is acting normally and the other Rainbow shark has uniform color. Are Rainbow Sharks a scaleless spiecies like a Loach?
Thanks

 

[grimlock3000]

Quick version of this reply:

Put the carbon in the filter, raise the temp to 88F, wait another 5 days, slowly lower temp back to 80F, done.

Longer version:

Ich gets attached to a fish to feed, drops off, sits in the gravel for a bit, then releases hundreds of new organism (Tomites) that infect other fish and start the whole process over again in the span of a few days. Ich meds work by killing the Ich parasites when it leaves the fish. Up to 86F, Ich has a faster life cycle, and then the Quick Cure kills the free swimming Ich in the water. At the temp you are at, the Ich parasite has a life cycle of about two or three days. Above 86F, the Ich is killed off without the need for medicine.

In theory, you should be clean, since 5 days is enough for the life cycle to take place and have the Quick Cure kill off everything. In practice, you could still have some leftover Ich in the tank attached to the inside of a fishes gills or resistant to the Quick Cure. The best way to REALLY be sure it is gone, is to put the temp over 86F, and then get the meds out of the water and leave the tank above 86F for another few days. Since your Rainbow shark is showing signs of stress, I would highly reccomend this. While it is supposed to be safe, Ich meds are pretty much just poisons which your fish may be susecptable to.

Do a water change too

 

[thatlouguy]

Thanks for the reply grimlock. I did forget to mention that I did a 25% water change yesterday. I'm still in the 1st week of cycling and I'm keeping a close eye on the water parameters. I'd really like to discontinue the meds since I don't want to put anything in the tank I don't have to. Question - if water temps above 86 is safe, why are temps maintained at 80? Also, you're saying the Rainbow shark's discoloration is a sign of stress? Any guess what this could be caused by, ich, high temps, financial problems (jk)? Thanks

 

[thatlouguy]

Thanks for the reply grimlock. I did forget to mention that I did a 25% water change yesterday. I'm still in the 1st week of cycling and I'm keeping a close eye on the water parameters. I'd really like to discontinue the meds since I don't want to put anything in the tank I don't have to. Question - if water temps above 86 is safe, why are temps maintained at 80? Also, you're saying the Rainbow shark's discoloration is a sign of stress? Any guess what this could be caused by, ich, high temps, financial problems (jk)? Thanks

 

[grimlock3000]

"Question - if water temps above 86 is safe, why are temps maintained at 80?"

Most tropical do best around 78-80F which is close to their natural habitats. Though most fish can tolerate higher temps, they will obviously not thrive in them. When you are trying to get rid of Ich, you are essentially killing off the entire population of one lifeform while trying to sustain the fish. The higher temps are generally considered to be the lesser of two evils compared to Ich meds. I have had success using Ich meds myself, but overall I know a lot of people have lost fish while treating a tank with meds.

Discoloration of fish is a common sign of stress. This can be caused by bad water conditions, unsuitable environment, medication, overcrowding, parasites, incompatible fish... Pretty much anything. Getting the medicine out of the water will only help.

What are you using in your tank for filtration and circulation? When you raise the temp, the availible oxygen in the water goes down for the fish to breathe. Some meds will lower the availible oxygen as well. To get more oxygen in the water, you need a lot of surface aggitation which improves gas exchange (allows oxygen into the water). You can do this by adding an air pump and an air stone, lowering the water level (so the filter water splashes into the tank) or using a powerhead. If you already have any of those three, you should be OK.

 

[thatlouguy]

Thanks. As you can probably tell, I'm new at this and have a lot to learn. Thank God I haven't lost any more fish ( I lost one the 2nd day that I blame on ich)
I have a Whisper Power Filter 2 and a UGF using a powerhead 301. I think I'm getting good oxygenation.

 

[grimlock3000]

As long as you have the powerhead putting some bubbles in the tank to break up the surface, you are all set.

I bought a Aquaclear 301 Powerhead myself when I had Ich a few weeks ago. I was going to take it out once the Ich went away but my wife likes the bubbles 8)

If you want to keep to the safe side of the high temps, you can put the temp at 87F, you just need to be sure the whole tank is that warm to prevent Ich from spreading (if it is still around). 88F is commonly reccomended because even if a thermometer is off by a bit or one side of the tank gets a little colder than the other, the entire tank should still be above 86F.

Something else to keep in mind is that no one thing ever works all the time for everyone. Even with good advice, fishkeeping involves a lot of trial and error within your own home.

 

[thatlouguy]

??? My Powerhead is at the top of a tube that leads from the UGF. Its outlet is about halfway up the tank (30" tall hex tank). No bubbles are created. It was explain to me that the powerhead takes debis from the gravel and throws it back into the water so it can be filtered. Was that bad info?? My filter creates surface agitation that puts oxygen into the water. Is that correct?

 

[grimlock3000]

The powerhead helps pull water and waste into UGF to help with biological filtration. Most of the waste stays in the UGF grid or in the gravel and you can vacuum it out. The function of the UGF is not to put waste back into the tank water for the power filter to catch it. If you check the UGF in a few weeks by looking under the tank (depending on the tank stand), you will be amazed at the ammount of fish waste trapped in there.

On top of the powerhead outlet is a small spot to put an air hose. The water flow pulls air into the hose and sprays it into the tank, where it then floats up to the surface and breaks up the surface. See example:

With high temps, you always want EXTRA surface aggitation, especially with a hex aquarium where the gas exchange area is poor. One of the biggest downfalls of a hex tank is the lack of surface area causing a lack of oxygen. The Whisper 2 is probably pushing the limits when the temp is up, but fine when the water is at normal temps. If you buy some air hose, you can run a line down into the powerhead from above the water surface to get some bubbles. You should have received a control valve with the powerhead to put on the air line for control over the bubbles as well. Should cost you less than $1 for the air line and it might save some fish, or at least ensure they can breathe easily in the warm water.

 

[Tigerlily]

A few ideas to add to Grimlock's good advice...

Some (but not all) power heads have a reverse flow feature. You could then push water down the UGF tube and the water would flow up through the gravel. This type wouldn't produce any bubbles. Is this what you have Thatlouguy? You still get the benefit of the bio-filtration without the gunk build-up underneath the UGF plates. It's not going to help break the surface tension of the water and provide aeration though. Grimlock is right, adequate aeration at high temps is very important! At the least, lower your water level a little to get as much splashing as possible from the whisper filter.

The discoloration of your rainbow shark could be several things. Stress from poor water quality in a still cycling tank is possible, but so is aggression. I don't think it would be the heat. My albino rainbow made it through 2 weeks at 88 with no problem (thrived, in fact... he's a fat pig!). I've never used ich meds with him though, so I don't know if they are specially sensitive. I've not heard that they are though.

I'm a little worried about having 4 rainbow sharks in a 34 gal hex. It's not much room and they get very aggressive as they get older and bigger. Mine is very territorial and chases the tiger barbs away from "his" cave. I have only the one, but I've been told that if you have more than one, the largest will make the others miserable (sometimes to the point of death!) Your guy could be stressed out by that too. Watch out for aggression carefully, especially as they get bigger and be prepared to separate them if necessary.

Hope this helps. Keep up with the water changes and watch the parameters of your still cycling tank. I think that Grimlock's advice on the ick treatment is good, and I would follow it if I was in your shoes! Good luck and keep us posted...

 

[thatlouguy]

Thanks for the advice. There are all parts in the box, including the tubing that will allow me to setup the powerhead as you described. I was wondering what they were for (I'm an idiot). The LFS assembled the UGF and powerhead in the tank when I bought it so I thought there was nothing else to do. Thanks for the picture. It was a big help. Unfortunatly, the tank is on a opaque base, so I can't see underneath. I vacuumed for the first time yesterday during the water change and I didn't really burrow down into the gravel. The tank is just a week old so there really isn't too much debris in the gravel. When you vacuum, do you suck from under the gravel or concentrate on the surface?

 

[thatlouguy]

Hi Tigerlily:

Thanks for chiming in. As days pass, I'm getting more and more pissed off at my LFS. I don't think they gave me complete information eventhough I researched this stuff for 2 weeks before buying. My mistake was I never came into this site before I bought. I concentrated more on size & style of tank based on space and asthetic considerations (like I told grimlock, I'm an idiot). Anyway, that aside, I don't think the UGF is setup to push as you described. I get a strong flow out the diverter. I will bump up the temp and start filtering thru charcoal again today like grimlock suggested. As far as the sharks, there is only 1 of the 4 that bother any of the others in the community, his actions look more playful than aggressive (shows you what I know about fish). I'll keep an eye on him. I also need to do another water change today. The ammonia level is creeping up (currently at 1) and I want to try and keep that around .5. Thanks again. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[grimlock3000]

The 301 does not have reverse flow functionality unfortunately You can rig something up quite easily to get the output shooting down into the UGF if you wanted. As stated earlier, you would not be able to have bubbles if you did this, so I would not worry about it for now.

I vacuum water with the vac stuck in the gravel to get the waste out of the tank. I also do no more than one side of the tanks each week. There is some good bacteria in the gravel helping to keep the water clean, you want to avoid sucking up everything all at once.

 

[thatlouguy]

Thanks grimlock: I'm still waiting for that good bacteria to show up. It looks like you've cut down my work load. With such a small base area, (only 28" across), there is not much area to vacuum, especially if I only do half per week.