Is this Ich? :(

[mozcheez]

Pics are below.

Never had an ich experience, but I've always heard "white spots! white spots!" But these look almost like paint spatter dots! I figured it's Ich, but I always thought it would look more splotchy. I wanted to check with you experts here.

I do have a bottle of Ich treatment (not sure what it is specifically, it's in my office at work, will bring it home tomorrow - the liquid is blue in color). I do not have any aquarium salt, but please let me know if I should pick some up. If it is Ich, I know I need to treat the whole tank, but what other precautions to I need to take than removing carbon and turning up the temp a bit?

Here's the requested info in case it is needed:

1~What type of fish is afflicted? cardinal tetras (and pretty much all of them have it) - I don't notice it on any of the other fish... yet
2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values. 0ppm 0ppm 10ppm 76 degrees 7.6pH
3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up? 50g fully fishless cycled since about 2/27
4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known. penguin 350W hob
5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes? 8 peppered cories, 10 cardinal tetras, 2 indian glassfish, 6 pearl danios, 5 fry in a breeding net
6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time? WC just this past sunday, 50%, have not vacuumed gravel, tank has not had fish all that long (I think this is week 3)
7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them? all fish were drip acclimated, the most recent fish added were the tetras (about a week and a half ago)
8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.? some new plant bulbs floating in another breeder box, but the fish had the spots before this was added; also recently added root tabs and have started dosing the tank with flourish 2x week
9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently? no change in diet; frozen bloodworms, flake food, and sinking pellets

 

[Pton46]

That Would be Ich. Sorry....

You need to Treat the Tank so you can go Meds or Heat & Salt......

Freshwater Ich? Yuck!

This is a great Resource read before you treat.

 

[mozcheez]

Thanks a lot. Those pictures look exactly like it Will read this thoroughly tonight. I appreciate your help!

 

[bigben2057]

My clown fish i bought two days ago had that and it died now i know what it is....They better refund me.

 

[Pton46]

My clown fish i bought two days ago had that and it died now i know what it is....They better refund me.

Well you can treat it if you spot it early, but unfortunately getting a fish from a LFS or Chain store with Ich is a common occurrence.

I got Ich twice, one from a "chain" store and the other from my LFS which I trust....but they take in Fish (rehomes) so I guess it can happen. The Chain offered a refund if I brought it back (1st Time heat & Salt only, But the ICH spread and Killed one of my Oscars no refund on him) 2nd time my LFS gave me my choice of trying to Treat (med) for Free or Bring back. They gave me enough Meds to treat my tank for 2 weeks, (I chose Para Guard by SeaChem and Quick Cure) The second time I used the Heat and Salt for a week and then quick cure (No Fatalities the 2nd time)

I am not saying this is "the" cure, this is just what I did. Everyone needs to figure out what works I have Cichlids tend to be tolerant to heat and Salt plus strong enough for the meds...but you should research

 

[Mumma.of.two]

That is ich.
What you need to do is
Increase temperature to 86-88F slowly over a day
Increase aeration
Increase gravel vacuums and water changes
Leave the temp up for 1 week after last spot is seen
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php
No meds needed.

 

[George9]

That is ich.
What you need to do is
Increase temperature to 86-88F slowly over a day
Increase aeration
Increase gravel vacuums and water changes
Leave the temp up for 1 week after last spot is seen
http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php
No meds needed.

I did exactly this, and it worked like a charm. All cleared up in three weeks. I did loose half my fish (don't know why) but the heat got rid of it all! By far, the easiest treatment.

 

[mozcheez]

Thanks everyone. Will get started on this first thing in the morning. 86-88F isn't too high for the fish? Also, should I stop dosing flourish while treating? I'm assuming I should.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

The fish will be fine with the higher heat. Keep an eye on them just I case. remember to increase aeration. Warmer water doesn't have as much oxygen. IMO you can keep dosing flourish.

 

[mozcheez]

Thanks so much everyone. I wish it had become more pronounced before 11pm at night when I have to work 8 hours the next day! This morning I turned the temp up from 78 to 80 before I left for work. I'll get my husband to turn it up to 82 whenever he wakes up (in several hours probably, lucky dog gets to sleep in!).

The bottle of meds that I already have is Kordon Rid Ich Plus (I bought it before when I thought one of my mollies in my tank at work had Ich. Now that I see it on those tetras, I know that wasn't it with the molly). Bad thing is that it turns the water really blue when first dosed. I'm wondering if I should take out some of the decorations before dosing? See the picture (although already outdated, it has the 2 rock decorations in it) - I have these fake rock decorations that I would hate to have turn blue.... does anyone else have any experience with this Kordon stuff?

I also read that treating for Ich could possibly destroy the nitrification cycle :\ I'll definitely do complete tests for everything often, but does that sound common? i.e. does that typically happen 80% of the time, or 20% of the time? Fortunately I bought a python and will able to use that to help with the water changes.

Regarding aeration, I'll keep the water level a good 2 inches or so below the HOB outflow, and also I have a large airpump - I'll hook up some splitters and toss some extra airstones in there.

Will keep reading...

 

[Mumma.of.two]

You have more chance knocking your bacteria out using the meds then using heat (and salt). Heat won't kill your BB. Ich itself will have no effect on the cycle whatsoever.

 

[mozcheez]

Been reading all morning. I have some concern since I have 8 cories in the tank (scaleless) and that most ich meds have ill-effects on scaleless fish. The site for the product I'm going to be using says "Fishes such as the so-called "scale-less" species (loaches, catfish, etc.) tolerate Rid·Ich+ very well, but be sure to follow cautions noted earlier." This would lead me to believe I can do full dosages of the med, as long as I keep watch over the fish for signs of stress. Do you agree? Or should I do half doses for twice as long instead? Thankfully it's almost the weekend, so I'll be able to watch them closely.

I'll remove those rock decorations, but it sounds like the stuff will likely stain the aquarium sealant (lol). Oh well, better to have the fish alive and well than have clear sealant

Also the website says it will not interfere with the biological filtration (win!). I have a 3" long airstone, and 3 small airstones I'll place around the tank, along with the 2" or so drop off from the HOB outflow.

 

[HeatherW]

I thnk I would just treat with heat and low salt - skip the meds. you can kill the ick with just heat.
here is an article I think mumma gave me. i have treated ick a couple of times in my 5 gallon with just the salt and temp. (outbreaks were from contaminated fish being introduced - I now am setting up a QT tank. you only have to hit me over the head a couple of times before I catch on lol)

 

[Fishman4u]

ok, that is indeed "ick". To ward this off will take up to two weeks, maybe before. You need to remove the charcoal from any filter, and use it for circulation of the water and medicene. You need to add aquarium salt according to instruction. I use 1 tablespoon for every 5 gallons of water. And I use it as a tonic. You need to raise the water temp to 84 constant to kill this off, they cannot withstand the temp "ick" bacteria. This comes from too much bacteria in the tank water that is not cloesly monitored. Use ick medication according to instructions. In less then two weeks your back to normal. You must do your weekly water changes to add extra protection and precheck your water supply for ammonia, ph, and other. I cannot write a complete book here, but take my advice and you'll be good to go.
Good luck.

 

[HeatherW]

Using Heat to Treat Ich in Freshwater Tropical Fish - Article at The Age of Aquariums - Tropical Fish
forgot the link - sorry about that!

 

[Mumma.of.two]

ok, that is indeed "ick". To ward this off will take up to two weeks, maybe before. You need to remove the charcoal from any filter, and use it for circulation of the water and medicene. You need to add aquarium salt according to instruction. I use 1 tablespoon for every 5 gallons of water. And I use it as a tonic. You need to raise the water temp to 84 constant to kill this off, they cannot withstand the temp "ick" bacteria. This comes from too much bacteria in the tank water that is not cloesly monitored. Use ick medication according to instructions. In less then two weeks your back to normal. You must do your weekly water changes to add extra protection and precheck your water supply for ammonia, ph, and other. I cannot write a complete book here, but take my advice and you'll be good to go.
Good luck.

Temperatures under 86F will only speed up the ich lifecycle. 84F isn't enough. Ich is not a bacteria it is a parasite. It needs to be introduced to a tank to infect fish. It is not caused by too much bacteria in a tank. It can be brought on by stress/poor water conditions but only if it's already present in the tank.

OP - If you are worried about your cories really the best treatment is just heat. I have used this method and it works.

 

[mozcheez]

Thanks for the tips, everyone. The tetras aren't doing well (I'm convinced they were the hosts that brought it to the tank). One was dead when I got home and the other 9 are breathing very fast (so it's already in their gills) and they simply do not look well at all.

Still working on slowly raising temperature. Carbon is out of the filter, and I dosed with the rid-ich plus after a small water change. I have about 5 air stones scattered around the tank. I've left the light off tonight, biu does that matter?

Will keep monitoring and raising the temp until I reach 86 degrees minimum. I will probably switch over to the salt treatment when the bottle of meds run out.

The other fish all seem okay so far. *knock on wood*

 

[mozcheez]

Thought I'd give an update.

Five fish have died in total, and they all died Friday and Friday night. There have been no deaths since then and the rest of the fish look like they'll hang on (knock on wood). The danios and catfish are acting normal (lost 1 catfish, but he seemed to be an outcast from the beginning... maybe he was sick when I got him? He was always darker and less animated than the others), and the 6 tetras I have left still have a couple of white spots but it's nowhere near what it was in the pictures I attached to my opening post. I think they may be suffering from fin rot, as well :\ Everyone is eating well.

The tank temp is now around 86-88 degree, and I've been treating with Kordon's Rid Ich +. The bottle is almost empty, I think there's enough for 1 more treatment. After 24 hours of the last dose, I may start to add some salt, which I will probably half dose because of the cories.

Unfortunately, something is up with my nitrification cycle as I tested for .25ppm ammonia and .5ppm nitrites AND my pH dropped (from 7.6 normal down to 7.2) on Saturday. Nitrates were normal around 10-20ppm. Ammonia and nitrites were at 0ppm Friday and the pH was fine. I've been doing daily 50-60% water changes and monitoring these levels, keeping them as low as possible.

The bump in my cycle could easily have come from the frequent gravel vacs I've been doing (hopefully getting rid of some parasites, too, though!) and the fact that I had to empty the carbon out of the pouches in my filter - that could have disrupted something? I made sure to do this inside a bucket of tank water, and put the pouches right back in the HOB.

Anyway, been at work all day today and will be doing another WC and med dosing when I get home in an hour. Hopefully my remaining fish are doing well.

 

[jmpgop]

It's been a while since checking on this. How did things go?

 

[mozcheez]

Hey there - thanks for checking in

I turned up the heat to about 86F-88F and have been treating with Rid Ich +. Last night was actually my last treatment. Tonight I'll be running some carbon and doing a water change/final gravel vac and starting to lower the temp slowly over many days.

I lost no more fish, thankfully. I've continued dosing the RI+ daily. For the first five days or so, I would do a gravel vac daily with 25%-50% WC to hopefully suck out some of the parasites as they fell off the fish - also I left the tank lights off for these days. Since those 5 days, I've been doing the vac/wc every other day and have been using the tank lights again daily (my plants were starting to look worse for wear). I last saw the spots on my tetras on the 21st, and to play it safe, I've continued treating for another 7 days (I really want to be sure it's gone!)

Also, the fin rot I was worried about seems to have gone away on its own. The tetras were really very scraggly at the beginning, but they all seem to have had a lot of fin growth in the last week. I don't plan to treat for this now unless it reoccurs.

None of the other fish (except that one catfish, which I mentioned before may have been sickly from the beginning) appear to have been affected - even the few fry I have in a breeder net.

The RI+ stained my air tubing in the tank. It's hard to tell if the sealant is stained, but if so, it's very light and no bother. I don't know if it was the meds, heat, or a combination of both - but it looks like I'm in the clear! Really looking forward to being done with this and getting my tank back into working order!

Since nearly all my fish were added at the same time (new - but cycled!- tank), it was essentially my QT tank. Now, I'm going to need to buy a QT tank for future stock,

Anyway, thanks for checking in! Now I know what Ich (and fin rot) looks like and can hopefully catch it earlier to prevent deaths. I highly recommend Rid Ich + if anyone else has to deal with this. Tetras and cories can be sensitive to Ich meds but all fared fine for me

Kristin