Lesions left behind on Goldfish after treatment

[jsoong]

I use a salicylate kit, 2 reagents. ...

If you are using the salicylate kit, then you are reading free ammonia in the tap water (pretty unusual). <Is that before you add dechlor?> Just to double check your test, perhaps you can test a sample of distilled water to make sure your kit read zero. Using Prime would be a good idea if you are starting with ammonia ....

Use the biggest tub you have as isolation tank. I use a 30 gal rubbermaid as my QT. Those 25l water aging tubs you have would be better than the tiny 1 gal. 3 single tailed goldfish in a 5 is just too crowded & you get aggression issues, etc.

I don't know why the fantail is nibbling on the wounds, perhaps there are dead tissue that he is trying to eat. I guess the best thing to do is just to watch the behaviour for now.

 

[Phrozian]

I didn't put anything into the tap water prior to the test. Did I do something wrong there? I also couldn't find prime at my pet stores, so I'm going to order some online tonight... I will check with distilled water tonight as well.

So far, the biggest bucket I have is a 5 gallon bucket. My bathroom tub leaks quite substantially and has been used with soap etc before, so I think that's not an option... I bought a second aerated filter for the bucket, hopefully I can move one or two of them into there and at least relieve some stress...

The fantail seemed to have stopped nibbling at the rest after they got fed. I think it might be hungry? It was certainly different to the previous comet I had to isolate where it chased the other three fishes around to no end...

Again, thank you so much for all your advice so far I will definitely keep you all posted about their progress, and I will have to find a second job to get some money for the larger tank asap... Hopefully they can last till then

 

[jsoong]

I didn't put anything into the tap water prior to the test. Did I do something wrong there? ....

Nothing wrong ... The dechlorinator breaks the chloramines into ammonia & chlorine, so if you are seeing it after the dechlor, then that is bound ammonia & nothing to worry about. But since you are seeing it in the water without the dechlor, then you must presume that the ammonia is in the water & is free (hence toxic).

It is good to double check the test kit with distilled water... just in case it is a bad test & you are worried about nothing.

Look at the classifies/ Craig's lists, etc. for a big tank at good price. <If you don't care about the looks, you can get a new rubbermaid tub - 20-30 gal & use that as your tank for now. That should cost maybe $20, and will be useful as a QT/hospital later when you get a real tank ..... but then you still need to get the filter, etc.> If you want to keep those comets to maturity, you would need to look for a 6 foot+ tank ... that is a BIG set up, in terms of space & $$! So do think carefully before jumping in.

 

[Phrozian]

Hey all,

Just wanted to quickly update you
My fishies are doing great! I did a 70% water change, put the carbon filter back in to remove the sulfa medication, and reintroduced the cycle bacteria to kick start the cycle again. It's now the 4th day and they look VERY happy Swimming around and hunting for food, they are visibly very very active
The nitrites have started to spike a bit now, so I added a bit more salt, I think the ammonia-->nitrate cycle is starting to pick up...

More in regards to the ammonia in tap water, I tried it in distilled, the kit reads 0 ppm. That means my city water supply has 0.5 ppm of ammonia. I'm currently using Stress Coat by API to help my fishies heal, and have set up 2 buckets of water to age it a bit, hopefully lowering the natural ammonia...

But nevertheless, my fishies are happy~ and I am happy~ Thanks for all your advice so far I'll keep you all updated~~

 

[spoonman]

IMO stresscoat is almost as good as prime. It just has the addition on aloe that helps protect the fish when the slime coat has been damaged. That may be the best for your fish right now anyway. Glad to hear they are doing better. Keep on the lookout for a bigger tank! Good luck. I am impressed with your diligence in taking care of these fish. Many others would not take the time and effort. Well done!!

 

[Mystery]

I am glad that things are going well . If ammonia in the water supply is an issue you might try using an ammonia alert sensor inside the tank so you can check it all the time, also there are some ammonia locking products out there that might bring it down a bit more.

 

[Phrozian]

Hi everyone~

Another update... my fishies are doing okay. Eating, dancing around and having a blast~ However, I've found 2 worms in my filter as I was doing some cleaning today... Please see the attached picture...
They seemed quite lethargic and harmless, should I be worried about them? I mean, I'm heaps worried to find them as part of my tank already...

I don't see any physical symptoms with my fishies, apart from the original lesions from before that's healing... Lately, however, they've been pooping white stringy poop occasionally, not all the time, ever since I've switched their food... I'm now feeding them dried pellet food, but I pre-soak them to soften them because it's too hard for them to nibble on. Am I doing something wrong there?

Many Thanks,
Alex.

 

[jsoong]

Pre-soaking food is good, prevents gut problems.

I don't know what those worms are, prob nematodes. <How big are they? Nematodes are around 1/2 cm long.> Nematodes are harmless, goldies eat them for lunch!

It could also be some insect larva, but I don't think it is anything that infect fish.

 

[DizzCat]

have set up 2 buckets of water to age it a bit, hopefully lowering the natural ammonia...

Just wanted to pipe in here and tell you that if you use a good declorinator like Prime (my favorite) you do not need to age water. Just add the Prime to the bucket of tap water before you add it to your tank. I have never aged water, no need with a good declorinator.

Those are UGLY worms "shudder:"

 

[Phrozian]

Hi Jsoong,

They are indeed about 1/2 cm each! I've googled nematodes but there's about 500,000 species of it?? o.0 I can't seem to identify where they came from...
I've flushed my filter with hot water 60-70 degrees celcius for about 20 minutes to make sure all larvae or egg or whatever that's alive in there is cooked! I'm hoping they won't come back
- DizzCat, I wish I could get prime... Somehow my pet stores don't stock them at all I'm using an alternative from API called stress coat... Another reason why I need to age the water, is that there's 0.5ppm of free ammonia in my tap water I usually pop a mL of nitrosomo bacteria in there for the aging, so by the time I use it, the ammonia is almost all gone. Again, I hope I'm doing the right thing? o.0

Thanks a lot for the replies I'll keep an eye on my filter and see if any of these buggers will show up again...

 

[jsoong]

Nematodes just "show up" in tanks, esp. if there is a lot of detritus. They prob. come in the substrate, plants, or maybe even fish food (esp. fresh varieties.)

If you cooked your filter, you also cooked your bacteria, better watch out for a mini-cycle for the next few days.

0.5 of ammonia in the tap is not too bad. Most dechlor can handle that amount, so Stress coat should work fine. If you want a specialist ammonia binder, you can try to find Amquel. That works just like Prime, although more dilute so end up costing more in the end.

Once your tank is fully cycled, the bio-filter should be able to handle that amount within the hour. <And you won't be doing 70+% pwc's so there won't be that much ammonia added at one time.> So you can prob skip the aging then. For now, what you are doing is fine.

 

[Phrozian]

Hi Jsoong,

Yeah I weighed out the pro's and con's about cooking the filter... Luckily, I concentrated most of my bacteria in a secondary corner filter, which I stuffed with plenty of wool fibre to increase the surface area. That way, my bacterial colonies can be more dense in a lower volume
The nitrites have just spiked after 5 days of reintroducing the cycle bacteria, it's currently sitting at about 5ppm. I've got 1tsb/gallon of salt in the tank right now, the fishies seem to be quite unphased about the high nitrite, so I guess the salt's working?
I'm going to buy a nitrate test very soon, more stock coming this week for my local pet store

 

[Phrozian]

Hi all,

Another update... Not a good one though... Two of my fishies have stopped eating the pellets I've been feeding them... Ever since I've found the worms in the filter, and have gotten rid of them, two of my fishies have lost appetite completely. They are now bottom sitting and shying away from everything... Sometimes, they come out for a brief swim, but they still pay no attention to food.

Also, their lesions on their bodies have become worse again, this time however, I cannot see any signs of fungal growth of the sort... What should I do? I'm really afraid of losing them...

Also, ammonia, nitrite, pH, GH and KH are all within safe range... I can't determine the reason why they have stopped eating... I've even tried flake food, but they are still not eating... Please help~~

 

[jsoong]

What is the actual ammonia/nitrite reading? Perhaps you are having an ammonia spike because you cooked the filter. Perhaps you can try another biggish water change to see if things improve.

Your last post has your nitrite at 5? <or is that 0.5?> 5 of nitrite will do that to you , even with the protection of salt. Other things to check, what is the temperature of the tank? Is there enough aeration? Are the fish pooping?

When dealing with non-specific symptoms like lethargy, it is best to go back to basics. First, check & get water parameters perfect. Try to get ammonia to less than 0.5 & nitrite less than 0.25. <I know you have NH3 in your water ... so this may be difficult. Although stress coat will bind the 0.5 you have, it can't handle any spikes in the tank. An ammonia binder may be the trick here.> Next, make sure the temp is reasonable. Fancy golds do better in low 70's. They will stop eating below 60F. If all is well, try feeding some peas (blanched, shelled & chopped). That will clear the gut if it is a food problem. <To see if a gold is totally off food, try feeding shrimps - chopped cooked cocktail shrimps will do. If they don't go for shrimps, something is really wrong.> As a last resort, you can try treating for internal parasites (just in case those worms are bad.) Praziquental in food is the best here. <That is found in Jungle's Anti-parasite food, amount others.> I would tend to wait a day or 2 before doing that.

 

[Phrozian]

Hi Jsoong,

Many thanks for your prompt replies... I must apologize that my problems seemed to be continuous and stems from a poor start to the tank...
Nevertheless, I've recently done a major water change, and 24 hours later, the ammonia level is less than 0.5, and nitrite just above 0.5. The temperature is at 75-76F right now, and there should be sufficient aeration as I have recently fitted the tank with an air pump unit. The fishes are still pooping, however, most of which are white and stringy...

I've tried switching their diets from pellets back to dried shrimp flakes, they seem to be quite interested in that, except for one fancy. He still sits in a cave and does not seem to move very much at all...
How do I prepare the peas? Do I simply boil it, skin it and chop it up? Would frozen peas suffice or do I need to get some fresh ones from the supermarket?

Again, many many thanks,
Alex.

 

[jsoong]

Frozen ones work just fine. I usu. Just microwave it in water. But you can certainly blanch it over a stove top (a minute in boiling water will do). Then skin & chop.

White stringy poop is worrisome. This often indicates an internal infection. If the lethargy persists, I would try treating with an antibiotic containing food/ or the anti-parasite food (Prazi) for a week. <Some would use both.> Prazi is the safest option. Some people would use Prazi prophylactically during QT, as a lot of goldies are infected with parasites in the fish farms.

 

[Phrozian]

So far, I only have the tri-sulfa tablets. I will try and find some medicated fish food tomorrow... I certainly hope that they will survive...
I was wondering whether it is worth putting in things like Melafix (Cajeput oil) as an antibacterial and aid the treatment of their lesions?

 

[jsoong]

I don't find Melafix to be effective for things internal. Goldfish tend not to respond too well to antibiotics, etc in the water. They have so much mass that simply soaking in the stuff & waiting for it to be absorbed don't work too well. Generally, if you are serious about treating goldies ailments, you need to get it inside the fish. That means either oral meds or injections.

BTW - triple sulfa is not too bad as far as antibiotics goes, if taken internally. <Jungle's anti-bacterial food is triple sulfa.> However, the current best antibiotic is Kanamycin for goldies. Look for medicated food like Medi-Gold. Kanamycin + metronidazole (or Flagyl, the 2nd ingredient in Jungle's anti-parasite food in addition to Prazi) should cover most gram neg & pos bacteria.

This is more reading on medicated foods:
The Goldfish and Aquarium Board (GAB) Articles - Medicated Food Explained and Explored

It is best to know the ingredients in the food, esp. if you are doing combination .... as most meds have multiple ingredients & you don't want to overdose or have unwanted interaction.

 

[Donna]

lots of professional advice here, but i thought i'd add my own side, just to be hopeful here. when i first got my tank, my first two fishies started growing strange things and had red,swollen lumps, i treated as fungal infection but nothing helped. it turned out to be anchor worm and my poor fishies had to undergo a very stressful treatment of being captured and having the worms tweezered out and lots of medication. it took a while for their wounds to heal and i feared all the time that i was going to lose them. after a few weeks, success! healed fish. (and now very sociable fish, they love swimming in between my fingers when i do a hoovering and even like to be stroked. i have five fantails now in a 40L tank, which does worry me that it was over stocked, thank goodness we thought if 8 is maximum, 5 will be comfortable (store assistant said 8 would be fine!) but my fish seem fine. i had a problem with my nitrate and ammonia levels being all over the place, and it turned out that i was actually taking out too much water! so try this. make a secondary filter, (i used a big yougurt pot, bottom cut off, with some clean fabric over the top with a rubber band) take out 10% water, but carry on cleaning up fish poo with the hoover until it's as clean as you want it, but filter the water through your home made sieve and then put the water back in. that way you'll keep all the goodness of the tank, but can still clean up the waste.
i understand completely that you're attatched to the fish, i'd have cried my eyes out if i'd lost my two in the beginning, now i have 5 to worry about!!! and they're lovely. Bolly's a total diva, star's a flirt, glimmer eats EVERYTHING in sight, Schnitzel's bolly's entourage and Ponyo wants to be the boss! (but gets kept in place by bolly!)
my fishie are fed on cucumber, bloodworms/daphnia and fish flakes and i'm currently looking at other fruit and veg for them, a varied diet should help a great deal in getting their interest. (mine used to go nuts for cucumber and the other day i nearly lost my finger when i dabed it in a little tomato puree!)
i have noticed that one of my fish occasionally has white stringy poo, but it's never caused worry because it's never seemed to make my fish behave any different, but i'll keep and eye on that!
I'm probably likely to get a lot of feedback from this from professionals, and any advice would be welcome, but i hope a rookie's experience is useful to you, and i hope your fishies get better soon.

 

[Phrozian]

Hi Jsoong,
From the looks of it, all my fishies may have internal parasite as they all poop white poop... Two of them still has lesions from before and it has stopped healing it seems... They've grown bigger
I'm currently in Australia, and they our borders doesn't allow Kanamycin... I'll try my best to look for some internal parasitic fish food at my local aquarium store...
Just out of curiosity, my fishies' poop (when they WERE coloured) were usually red/orange. Over time, while sitting at the bottom of the tank, they become grey etc. Should I be worried?
Also, when I test my water for ammonia, the ammonia readings actually decrease overnight. For example, I tested my ammonia last night, read about 0.5 and I left the tube standing till this morning. Now, it reads 0.25ppm... the colour changed, is that normal?

- Donna
Thanks a lot for you input I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one so attached to these little beauties
I've checked their lesions, and it doesn't look like there's any lumps or swelling... It seems that there's only a deterioration of the scales, which falls off, and then left behind white flesh as they swim around... It's not red or anything, which I don't believe is inflamed... Nevertheless, I'll definitely use your advice on vacuuming everything through a cotton of some sort