Lesions left behind on Goldfish after treatment

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The trend is to restrict anti-biotics to vets only. In UK, you can't get anything over the counter. We can still get pretty much all the meds in Canada. Well, see what you can find. If you can get the triple sulfa tabs, you should be able to find something ...

Regarding the poop - perfectly normal to have poop the same color of the food you feed it, and of course it rots & deteriorates in your tank.

Re ammonia test - you mean the color change in the test tube as you let it sit? The reagent is prob. deteriorating. You are supposed to read the ammonia level immediately. Whatever happens afterward, I don't know. I dump my test-tubes out.. :)

The occasional white poop is nothing to worry about. But having it constantly, and with associated lethargy & lesions is worrisome.

Donna, I am glad your fishies made it through treatment. Parasites are getting to be more & more a problem with mass marketed fish. The goldfish boards are full of people bemoaning the decreasing quality of the fish. This is why QT is so important. And yes, we all get attached to our fish. Lucky they are long lived.
 
Just another update...
I went to a large aquarium store (after much online reviews, I went to the one that was highly recommended...) and they offered me some advice... They believe that it would be very difficult for two of my fishies to survive their current injuries *cries*... However, they were kind enough to give me detailed instructions on how to treat my fishies to give them the best chance...

They believe that the fishies are still suffering from external bacterial infection, which explains the expanding lesions. They've given me a broad spectrum antibacterial, and explained that I need to apply it topically, as well as to pre-soak their food in a diluted version of the antibiotic. So far, there's not much difference in their behaviour as yet, but I'm keeping a close eye and fingers crossed... *worried sick*

Again, thanks so much for your inputs, I'll keep you all updated on how this turns out.
 
That seems to be good advice. Soaking the food in the antibiotics is one way of making your own anti-biotic food. Although that is less controlled than premade food. <The antibiotics leaks out into the water before the fish eats it. Premade food is coated in oil to minimize this.>

If you are feeling ambitious, this is a recipe for making your own antibiotic food:
Goldfish and Aquarium Board Article-Medicated Gel Food

Keeping fingers crossed ... hope it all turns out well.
 
Hi all,

Just another update so far... It's been 4 days since I've began applying the antibacterial medication (Aminacrine hydrochloride/methylene blue)... I've foolishly left the water for 3 days because of the medication, and realized the ammonia has climbed to about 1ppm... I quickly did a water change yesterday, and they are now happily eating at whatever I throw at them (in this case, medicine soaked food)...

Although their behaviour seem normal and healthy, their lesions have grown to a very worrisome state... Spot, the worst afflicted, its lesion is now spreading around to the other side of his body, where scales are starting to fall off... fins as well :(:(:( *Cries* Worst of all, it looks like half his body width has been eaten away at that lesion :(:(:(:(:( I've been diligent in applying the medication directly at the location of the lesions, but I am now not sure whether the expanding lesion is due to the high ammonia in the last few days....

Phrilly, the fancy goldfish with the small lesion, is now also suffering from the lesion's expansion... So far... the situation seems to have gotten worse... Do you guys have any further suggestions as to what I can do?

Also... their lesions have small red patches around them, could they be fungus??
 
The redness in the ulcer is prob due to secondary infection, likely bacterial. <Fungal infections are quite rare.>

The one treatment I know of (short of a real anti-bacterial food like medi-gold) is to apply polysporin ointment directly on the sores. I don't know what your current preparation is, but if it is aqueous, it would be easily washed off. Polysporin tends to stick a bit & stay on longer.

You dab the Polysporin on the wound with a Q-tip & cover it with a thin film. The instructions I have say to do it once only. <Polysporin ointment should be found in the first aid/ bandage section of a drug store. If you don't have that, you can try Betadine ointment. Those are the only 2 "people" meds that is used topically on goldfish I know of.>

And of course, it is important to keep checking the ammonia & do water changes to keep the levels down. <If you are medicating the water, you would have to replace the medication that you take out with the pwc so as to maintain a constant level.>
 
Hi Jsoong,

Another update, my fishies are all very actively hunting for food and generally very lively. I'm now performing 40% water changes every day or every second day, depending on how the ammonia and nitrite levels are.
What I've found was that, my nitrate levels are almost permanently at 50ppm, but not so in my tap water. I suspect that this is because of the overcrowding issue, my cycle is more or less handling the conversion, just not fast enough to keep ammonia and nitrites zero... Nevertheless, they do look better.

On the other hand, Spot, my worst afflicted fish in tank, his lesion has stopped spreading, and it's stable... (I've been measuring the size using photos) The redness has subsided and the would looks 'cleaner', there aren't as much white flesh hanging off it... But because of the fact that it looks cleaner... I can finally see the full extent of the damage... I can see his tail bones *CRIES*... He's still eating and swimming and chasing and pooping... But there's this gaping hole near his tale where I can actually see his bones...... I'm going to keep trying my best, but I just want to know, does he feel pain like that?? I really don't want him to suffer...... :(:(:(:(:(:(:(
 
sounds like things are improving :) I would say that if he's swimmng about and feeding properly that he's dealing with his injury pretty well. he'll probably just sit on the bottom loads if not. i can't imagine he'd want to swim much if he's in pain so i personally wouldn't worry about it. i thought the same thing when my fishies had the worms buried in their flesh, and worse when i had to help pull a couple out since it usually took a small chunk of flesh with it! still, i'm no expert, only a beginner myself, but i'm an animal lover first and foremost and i wouldn't give advice unless i genuinely thought it was best for the animal! :) keep us posted. much love, Donna and fishies. (Bolly, Star, Glimmer, Ponyo and Schnitzel-[yeah, that one's from chowder!])
 
Hang in there. If they are vigorous and eating there is certainly hope.
 
I agree with the others. If the fish is active & feeding, it is getting better, and deserves a chance. I think you are doing a great job so far. Hang in there!
 
Hi guys and gals,

This is the 6th day since I started them on Melafix. Their lesions definitely stopped growing in size, and there are no redness visible either, I think that's the best sign I've seen in two weeks...

Spot, the worst afflicted one, is now constantly nibbling at the interior of a cave ornament. He's not paying too much attention to food around him, but if I squirt some fragmented food into the cave, he would still go for them. Should I be worried about that?

Phrilly and Oxy, the other two, is actively hunting for food and seems to be on a happy happy joy joy merry go around every now and then. They even come and greet me when I come in the room :D

I've kept the ammonia and nitrite levels under 0.5 and 1.0 respectively, considering my nitrogen cycle is now non-existent... It's the best I can do :(:(

Thank you all so much for your support, prayers and well wishes :) I'll keep you guys posted again soon :)

Much love from Oxy, Phrilly, Spot and Coffee, and of course~ me :)
Alex.
 
Another update...
Since my last post, I've been probing spot, my worst afflicted fishie... with a flashlight to see what he was doing in the cave... I couldn't find him, and so I slowly lifted the cave, to find that he's still alive... but is now a whole lot worse...
He's right side is now almost completely paralyzed, his fins on his right side has almost completely decolourized, and he's finding it hard to synchronize his swimming movements... He's basically struggling to even swim... So I took him out of the turbulent main tank (filtered) to a 5L bucket with the same amount of melafix... I'm trying to feed him, but he doesn't even seem to be able to see the food, or at least... be interested...

I'm seriously contemplating euthanasia... I've read about cold shock being one of the most humane... since I don't have access to clove oil... What do you guys think?
I'm going to continue trying hard to make sure he's not in pain, and feed him as much as I can... but I am just considering the possibility if he is going to be in too much pain... then I'll have to do the unthinkable...

Many thanks,
Alex.
 
I am really, really sorry to hear about your babies! I don't have any advice for you, since I am also new and have no goldfish. You are being a good parent in trying to save them! It's always hard to have a pet hurt, I totally feel for you there. Good luck, and know that I am thinking about you guys too!
 
I am so sorry to hear that Spot is not doing well. You did the right thing in isolating him. It is a hard decision to make, but euthanasia may be the only option left.

This is the sticky on euthanasia. It is well researched:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/an-overview-of-euthanasia-73775.html

In addition to what is in the article, you may consider adding salt as well. I normally use salt as a sedative for doing things to my fish. At 0.3% they become quite docile & easier to handle. So I am thinking that when it come time to end the suffering, you may wish to raise the salt level to sedate him, before dropping the temp in the container.

Also, goldfish will become dormant & hibernate in low temp. So although a sudden cold shock will be hamane, you may feel better doing a slow temp drop. If you put the container in the fridge, the fish will slowly fall asleep & hibernate at a temp of 5C or so. This should be no more stressful to the fish as the natural onset of winter. <A pond person posted elsewhere that this is how he overwinter his pond fish - put in small Rubbermaid containers in the fridge & let them hibernate in the fridge at 4C.> Once the fish is asleep, you can finish the process by putting it in the freezer until it is frozen solid.
 
Hi Jsoong,

Thank you all for all your advice so far... even during these last moments, I feel relieved to know that there are so many kindred hearts thinking of Spot.

From the thread, slow freezing can cause pain at the extremities before reaching hibernation, and the fish will feel excruciating pain... A lot of the websites recommended decapitation after freezing... and it's not something I can muster the strength to do...

After I freeze him... what should I do? Is a burial a good idea?
All I want is for him to not suffer any pain...
 
Hey, just in case you need to euthanize, I found this article for you. (I am hoping you don't have to though!)


Less nasty techniques are the freezer and alcohol strategies. I don't think putting a fish in a freezer is humane: they don't seem to react strongly to slowly freezing to death, but then they can't—their metabolism is shutting down. Fish tend to be very sensitive to cold, though, and seek out optimal temperatures and avoid the cold, and can respond to changes of a few degrees with shock, so I have my doubts that this is a good way for them to go. Putting them in water with a few percent alcohol might be OK; they do get drunk, pass out, and die, just like people can.
Here's the way I euthanize fish, though, and since I've killed many thousands, I can say it's the cleanest, least painful way to do it, for both me and the fish. It's an anesthetic used for frogs and fish that goes by various names: ms222, MESAB, 3-aminobenzoic acid ethyl ester, tricaine methanesulfonate, or, as most of the pet and aquaculture supply houses call it, Finquel. For routine anesthesia, I use a 0.2% solution of the stuff—let a fish swim in it for a few minutes, they lose consciousness, you can do various surgeries on them, and then put them in clean fresh water, and a few minutes later, they're awake and swimming around again. If I need to euthanize them, I use a 0.4% solution (or more crudely, I use my 0.2% stock and sprinkle a few extra crystals of the ms222 powder in the beaker), put the fish in it, they fall asleep…and after 3-5 minutes, their heart stops. It will kill them at lower doses, but simply takes longer.
I get my stuff from Sigma, catalog number a-5040, for those of you who can purchase through academic suppliers. Otherwise, here are a few commercial places that will sell it to you: Doctors Foster & Smith, PondRX, and Argent Labs. It's about $15-20 for a 5 gram bottle, which sounds expensive, but a little goes a very long ways. I bought a 25 gram bottle 8 years ago, and I've still got lots left…and I euthanize fish far more often than your usual pet fish owner.
 
Hi Jsoong,

Thank you all for all your advice so far... even during these last moments, I feel relieved to know that there are so many kindred hearts thinking of Spot.

From the thread, slow freezing can cause pain at the extremities before reaching hibernation, and the fish will feel excruciating pain... A lot of the websites recommended decapitation after freezing... and it's not something I can muster the strength to do...

After I freeze him... what should I do? Is a burial a good idea?
All I want is for him to not suffer any pain...

I was NOT suggesting slow freezing! I was suggesting slow cooling to the fish's natural hibernation point (5C or ~40F), then freeze AFTER the fish is asleep. <Note that this is only reasonable in cold water fish that naturally hibernates. I am NOT advocating this for tropical fish.> However, a rapid dunk into freezing water is certainly just as humane.

Yes, a real anesthetic will be even better. However, I doubt that you can get that OTC in Oz, if you can't get medicated foods. You might want to check clove oil, tho. You might be able to get that in a health food store.

Regardless, if the fish is frozen solid, I don't think it is necessary to decapitate it afterward. I think being in the freezer for 24 hrs should be more than enough to ensure death.

I bury my fish in my flower garden. My kids used to have a little ceremony .... I know it is a bit much for a fish ... well, we are a bit sentimental that way.
 
Dear All,

I regret to announce that Spot, aged 8 weeks and 2 days... have passed away... In the last moments of his life, I believe he didn't suffer much, as his breathing was not hastened or labored... And was swimming, albeit struggling, adeptly.
I thank you all for all your advice and support. I can only hope that I may learn from this mistake, and become a better carer for my other fishies.

I will bury him in my flower garden too, and I will hold a little ceremony of my own. I believe it's the least he deserves...

Best wishes,
Alex.
 
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