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Old 12-22-2013, 10:45 PM   #1
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Anyone know how long columnaris bacteria can live in an empty tank?

If i have an empty tank how long would i have to wait for it to die off. Could i turn off the heaters, dose with large amount of salt and leave the tank running for afew weeks to kill it off and make it safe without stripping the tank
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:33 AM   #2
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It is present in all non clorine water. You cant look at it like.....I must destroy the tank.
because as soon as you put the decloinator back into your tank, I don't care what you cleaned it with it will still be there....its in every lake, stream in the world and cleaning the tank is not useful in any way.
Flexibacterium lives in the fishes gills and gut and has either a fast lethal approach or simply lives in the fish. If you went fishing in a normal lake, you would probably find the bacteria in 90% of the adult fish you caught. I have found kanamacyn to be useful, along with minocycline but most of all I like terramycin. It is what they use in the food fish farm industry and have since the 70s. It is cheap and very effective against any bacteria. Yes you could use salt to slow it down, in fact salt if one of the most effective cures of secondary fungal infections that often kill the fish. however, anything you put into the tank to kill columnaris is gonna destroy your benifical bacteria. Reducing bioload by feeding less and vacuuming substrate and changing filters should and some huge water changes should be enough. If you want to break it down, go for it. But then you have to cycle again. better to take the fish out and treat them since its always present in a freshwater environment. A good sterilizing agent is methylene blue, a chemical dye which is safe and actually helps the fish to increase the oxygen in their blood and will not hurt a human at all, tho it will stain the hell outta your clothes, it should kill most bacteria and fungus after a few days of a medium to deep blue color, about 5ml per ten gallons. Salt could be used to help.....but really, this would only be to make it so you don't have to physically break down the tank like if its big or something.
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:42 AM   #3
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It can live without a host for roughly 35 days.

I had a nasty outbreak a few years, treating with daily pwc,salt ,lowered temps, Maroxy, Maracyn 2, Pimafix and Melafix. The only thing to stop my strain was Fungus Clear by Jungle (remember like all diseases there are different strains), I lost 20 fish before I was able to stop it.

This disease seems to be much more common in Rift Lake cichlids as I've never once encountered it in New World cichlids in twenty years.

Here is what I used...

http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-TB630W-.../dp/B0002561WY
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:59 AM   #4
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Ohh yeah, also it can be other diseases suchs as Pusedomonas, and aeromonas and even just true fungus. The terramycin is approved to treat pusedomonas and aeromonas and bacteria septima (columanaris). If you use nitrofurazone or malachite green or formalin, please be careful with those 3 because they are toxins to humans and animals.
I have two little girls who like to stick their fingers in the tanks and let my guppies and mollies come kiss them, so I never use anything that isn't safe. Nitrofurazone and formalin are bad *** chemicals, malachite is not quite as bad. Methylene blue is safe also but will destroy your Benficial bacteria.
that's why I always recommend terramacyin and salt and if needed methylene, coz their all three cheap, safe and effective.
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Old 12-23-2013, 10:42 AM   #5
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It can live without a host for roughly 35 days.

I had a nasty outbreak a few years, treating with daily pwc,salt ,lowered temps, Maroxy, Maracyn 2, Pimafix and Melafix. The only thing to stop my strain was Fungus Clear by Jungle (remember like all diseases there are different strains), I lost 20 fish before I was able to stop it.

This disease seems to be much more common in Rift Lake cichlids as I've never once encountered it in New World cichlids in twenty years.

Here is what I used...

http://www.amazon.com/Jungle-TB630W-.../dp/B0002561WY
Arghhh Well ive tried salt, kanaplex, furan 2 and myxazin all at low temps. The only thing to slow it was salt and myxazin so im doubling up on amount and duration. All the meds i hear can work i also read they havent worked plus they cost alot of money let alone the shipping to uk. Its christmas!! Most of the meds i hear could work arnt even legal here. Stupid. Ive only had the fish just over a month now and theyve had it since day one. It cant be an aggressive strain or they would already be dead so it gives me hope. Theyre fighting so i will continue to aswell.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:06 AM   #6
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Are you sure it's columnaris because every strain I've seen or heard about kills the host in 7-10 days?

Maybe post some pictures if you can?
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:12 AM   #7
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Its 99.9% columnaris. I will see if my phone camera can pick it up. White wiry mouths, fuzzy fungus type haystacks on their sides, deteriating fins. The lot.

My camera phone cant pick it up, as i said im almost completely positive its colum as i thought i was something else to start with which led to some wrong treatments to start with.

Ive heard of some strains taking along time and maybe the temp salt and meds are holding it back.
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:43 AM   #8
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Fish Pathogens

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Originally Posted by molliwopp View Post
Anyone know how long columnaris bacteria can live in an empty tank?

If i have an empty tank how long would i have to wait for it to die off. Could i turn off the heaters, dose with large amount of salt and leave the tank running for afew weeks to kill it off and make it safe without stripping the tank
Hello molli...

Parasites and bacteria live in most tanks and even on the fish. The best thing to do is to keep the tank water as clean as possible. Large, weekly water changes of half the tank's volume in addition to a bit of standard aquarium salt, at one teaspoon for every 5 gallons of new, treated tap water will strengthen the fishes' immune system and most fish pathogens don't tolerate even a trace of salt in the tank water. It wouldn't hurt to put your tank equipment like nets or similar pieces in a 5 gallon bucket of your replacement water and add a couple of tablespoons of standard aquarium salt. Just soak the pieces overnight.

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Old 12-23-2013, 11:50 AM   #9
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Hello molli...

Parasites and bacteria live in most tanks and even on the fish. The best thing to do is to keep the tank water as clean as possible. Large, weekly water changes of half the tank's volume in addition to a bit of standard aquarium salt, at one teaspoon for every 5 gallons of new, treated tap water will strengthen the fishes' immune system and most fish pathogens don't tolerate even a trace of salt in the tank water. It wouldn't hurt to put your tank equipment like nets or similar pieces in a 5 gallon bucket of your replacement water and add a couple of tablespoons of standard aquarium salt. Just soak the pieces overnight.

B
Its past this stage unfortunately. My fish get every second day 35% changes without fail. Ive only had them just over a month and the fish came or contracted it in transportation or in the first few days they were here, the fact they were mail order fish wont of helped.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:19 PM   #10
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Are you sure it's columnaris because every strain I've seen or heard about kills the host in 7-10 days?

Maybe post some pictures if you can?
Best one i could get. What it doesnt show the patchy sides and fraying fins but the white mouth is plain to see. It is not fluffy and appears on the mouth on all fish as an initial symptom.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:21 PM   #11
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Best one i could get. What it doesnt show the patchy sides and fraying fins but the white mouth is plain to see.
Hmmm I'm leaning towards lip-locking from that picture, I've never heard of a fish last 4 weeks with columnaris.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:24 PM   #12
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Hmmm I'm leaning towards lip-locking from that picture, I've never heard of a fish last 4 weeks with columnaris.
Theres 2 fish in the picture both with white lips, that was my initial diagnosis hukit but ive never witnessed lip locking and then when the small gray patches appeared on their sides i knew it had to be something else.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:44 PM   #13
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Hmmm I'm leaning towards lip-locking from that picture, I've never heard of a fish last 4 weeks with columnaris.
Is it possible and i have to put it down to the fact that my setup is slowing the infection to a point that its barely progressing? Im waiting another 2days and another 40% change while the carbon removes the kanaplex furan2 cocktail before starting the myxazin treatment again.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:45 PM   #14
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Theres 2 fish in the picture both with white lips, that was my initial diagnosis hukit but ive never witnessed lip locking and then when the small gray patches appeared on their sides i knew it had to be something else.
I honestly wouldn't continue with medications from that, I would just continue with daily water changes and monitor from there.

Is there a chance to QT the two fish in question? Even go buy a small Rubbermaid tub with a heater, you don't even need a filter a simple airstone and daily water changes would be enough.
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Old 12-23-2013, 01:55 PM   #15
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Every single fish have the same symptoms as its my rusty species tank, they came together and are sick together, all 10 of them have symptoms. Hukit it really is a case of if i dont treat.. it grows and they slip further into no return. The days without any form of a barrier are the days it progressed most, i cant sit by and let it eat my fish alive, i have to try regardless of the outcome or the chance of overdosing right? Theyre dead if i dont and probably dead if i do. This small chance that they pull through IS the ONLY option against it. It only slows when i have anti bacterials in the tank and without question it WILL kill them if i do nothing. So what choice do i have?

From the description and the pictures youve seen maybe it doesnt look desperate but thats even more reason to try and stem it and nip it in the bud now surely as once ita gone too far it becomes even harder to treat. It isnt getting better and is only going one way.
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Old 12-23-2013, 02:27 PM   #16
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I would start using baths instead of medications, try Potassium permanganate(except of you've used Formalin) dosed in the tank or salt baths 3-4 per day for 7 days. Baths are tricky so watch the fish closly and watch for distress.
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Old 12-23-2013, 05:39 PM   #17
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Are you sure it's columnaris because every strain I've seen or heard about kills the host in 7-10 days?

Maybe post some pictures if you can?
I wondered about this. The neons lasted 3 weeks - advice from others was columnaris or some sort of bacterial infection. It just steadily got worse, some days the treatments looked hopeful but it never went away.
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:33 PM   #18
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Fungus! Mold!
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:38 PM   #19
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My male guppies tails rot from fighting with eachother all the time...its true fungus and very easy to get rid of. True Columnaris is brown with white skin leasions, the white stuff on their fins and mouth is just secondary fungal rot set in from the dead decaying skin. They go hand in hand. Some of my older males have tails shredded and rotting away like white stuff.......I put them in my hostpital tank for 4-7 days With heat salt and methyelene blue, and they are put back into male tank and are just fine.......
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Old 12-25-2013, 09:57 PM   #20
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My male guppies tails rot from fighting with eachother all the time...its true fungus and very easy to get rid of. True Columnaris is brown with white skin leasions, the white stuff on their fins and mouth is just secondary fungal rot set in from the dead decaying skin. They go hand in hand. Some of my older males have tails shredded and rotting away like white stuff.......I put them in my hostpital tank for 4-7 days With heat salt and methyelene blue, and they are put back into male tank and are just fine.......
Its not fungus but thanks for your post Matt. I would know the difference and can assure you of that.
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