Need help identifying what's happening to my Tetra

[Vick]

Hi again!
So things were starting to get better. Maybe my tank started cycling. I also used the buffer stuff and it worked well. I noticed too the ammo lock drops my PH. Unfortunately my KH still stays at 0. I also noticed my angel likes the lower ph - in the high 6's.

Current parameters
28c
PH 6.4
Ammonia 0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
GH 75
Total alkilinity 40
KH 0

My biggest issue right now is my angel isn't happy. Attached is a photo of her anal fin where the longest strand doesn't look right looks likes it has white bacteria or slime on it. and the same thing is happening to her ventral fin. I noticed that the longest strand has now fallen off her anal fin. She also has that shiny spot on her head which may be lymphocytes? Anyway, she's usually excited to see me but now she looks more anxious. Flapping her fins and breathing quickly. I fed her and that seemed to calm her down. And she's glass surfing. I just don't know what this could be because the parameters are improving .
Also one of my tetras died (not the one from the original post). Pretty sure it was that neon disease - swollen abdomen. The one thing that was odd was when I found the body there was bacteria that looked hairy, like white cotton.

I did the water test for gravel with tap water and some of my gravel in a bucket and here are the readings after a week

0nitrite
0 nitrate
GH 25
KH 80
PH 7.2

My regular tap water when I first tested it was
Ph7.8
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5
GH 120
KH 80

So not much of a difference between the 2. I'm stuck. I just want to prevent my angel from getting/being sick and stressed. Thanks!

 

[Colin_T]

When you did the gravel in bucket of water test, did you have a separate bucket of tap water for a control?

There appears to be some difference in the pH and GH after a week with the gravel in the bucket of water. I would have expected the KH to drop and not the GH. Did you get them mixed up (the KH and GH), because GH doesn't normally drop, whereas KH does.

Did you check the ammonia level in the bucket/s of water?

Alkalinity is normally KH (carbonate hardness).

The gravel appears to be affecting the water chemistry (pH, GH & KH).

I can't remember if you changed the substrate in the tank or not. If you haven't changed the substrate, it might be time to do so and use a different brand of gravel. You just want a plain boring gravel with nothing added. You do not want a plant substrate or anything weird, just normal gravel.

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The angelfish does not have Lymphocystis virus.

The cream patches on the angelfish are from excess mucous caused by something in the water irritating it. The white filament hanging off the anal fin looks like excess mucous too.

Glass surfing is nothing to be concerned about unless it happens continuously. Fish often do it when they see their owner coming to feed them. It is like a dog running over to a friend and saying hi. Some fish glass surf when they see their reflection in the glass. This can be territorial or wanting to hang out with other fish.

If a fish becomes nervous and skittish, it is usually something in the water irritating it and a water change is recommended.

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Neon disease does not cause a swollen belly, and if the fish from the original post is still alive, it definitely doesn't have neon disease. Neon tetra disease causes the red and or blue lines on the fish to turn white in an area around the middle to rear half of the body. The fish usually dies within 24 hours of the white patch appearing. It is caused by a bacteria and spreads rapidly to other neon tetras and fish that are closely related to neon tetras.

White fluffy hair/ cotton like filaments coming off an injured or dead fish is usually Saprolegnia fungus. It gets into open wounds and prevents the wound from healing. Dead fish will get it on their body if left in water for a few days.

If fish bloat up (get fat) overnight and die shortly afterwards, it is usually internal organ failure and there's no cure. Fish can have organ failure for a number of reasons but it is usually caused by being exposed to harmful chemicals or an internal bacterial infection.
Please note. You do not have to treat the tank for bacteria or fungus simply because I mentioned bacterial infection and Saprolegnia fungus. Just getting in early so you don't add something These are in the aquarium water all the time and only affect sick or injured fish.

 

[Vick]

I think I'm going to try the aquarium salt and hopefully that will kill whatever is ailing my neon tetra and angelfish. I believe the shiny spot as well as the patch on the neon and angel fish are missing scales. My angel also lost part of both ventral fins and the long tail end of her anal fin.
Question because I had a bad experience or maybe the aquarium salt wasn't the issue (who knows), this will sound like a dumb question but just want to be super careful.
On using aquarium salt, the directions say 1 tablespoon per 5 us gallons. I know I should dissolve the salt first before adding it. But for dosage, I have a 29 gallon tank, would that be 6 tablespoons? It just seems like a lot. Or are you only supposed to add salt during a water change and dose the volume of the new water you add to the tank?

Update - Also I think the buffer worked- at least for my ph. Since using it, my ph doesn't seem to get lower than 6. KH is 40 but that was seen after a water change. If I don't get improvements or things get worse, I'll change the gravel.

Thanks!

 

[Autumnsky]

I didn't catch the whole thread just this last part.

If you need to increase KH then you can use Kent' Superbuffer dKh
https://www.kentmarine.com/products/kent-superbufferdkh.htm

Yes it says Marine like a SW tank which it also can be used for. It is just calcium and (cloudiness fromt he calcium) dissolves pretty quickly into the tank.

My water from the tap frequently has 0 KH which is not ideal for a community tank, because of pH crashes.

You might also want to try some Epsom Salt (which is not salt but magnesium sulfate) In the pharmacy section at the store like for soaking a sprained ankle. No additives, oils or colors, fragrance etc. Just plain.

Magnesium and calcium work together to help maintain buffering capacity.

Here is a really great article regarding water chemistry.
https://users.cs.duke.edu/~narten/faq/chemistry.html

 

[Andy Sager]

I think I'm going to try the aquarium salt and hopefully that will kill whatever is ailing my neon tetra and angelfish. I believe the shiny spot as well as the patch on the neon and angel fish are missing scales. My angel also lost part of both ventral fins and the long tail end of her anal fin.
Question because I had a bad experience or maybe the aquarium salt wasn't the issue (who knows), this will sound like a dumb question but just want to be super careful.
On using aquarium salt, the directions say 1 tablespoon per 5 us gallons. I know I should dissolve the salt first before adding it. But for dosage, I have a 29 gallon tank, would that be 6 tablespoons? It just seems like a lot. Or are you only supposed to add salt during a water change and dose the volume of the new water you add to the tank?

Update - Also I think the buffer worked- at least for my ph. Since using it, my ph doesn't seem to get lower than 6. KH is 40 but that was seen after a water change. If I don't get improvements or things get worse, I'll change the gravel.

Thanks!

You need to be careful when it comes to treating water. In reality your 29 gallon tank does not hold 29 gallons of water even when empty. Then you have displacement from the substrate and any decorations that may be in the tank. To get a more accurate reading as to how much water is in the tank, mark the tank at the top of the water line then measure how much water is above the substrate line. Then remove a known amount of water. (I like to use 1 gallon jugs for this or mark a 5 gallon pail exactly where a gallon or 2 or 3 gallons would be.) After removing the exact amount of water, measure how far down the water line went. With some simple math, you can get a closer measurement to your actual water volume. So for example, if removing a gallon of water reduced the level by 1 inch and your total amount of water is 10 inches, 1 gallon per inch x 10 inches = 10 gallons. So you would treat for 10 gallons of water not whatever size the tank claims to be.
Hope this helps.

The best way for an exact amount is to measure the water you are adding when you first set up the tank. If you mark the tank at the water line, you will know exactly how much water is there when the water is at that water line. You can see this here. All my tanks look like this: https://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/members/41382-albums14898-picture73137.html (in my display tanks, the marks are smaller and not so visible. )

 

[Colin_T]

Question because I had a bad experience or maybe the aquarium salt wasn't the issue (who knows), this will sound like a dumb question but just want to be super careful.

On using aquarium salt, the directions say 1 tablespoon per 5 us gallons. I know I should dissolve the salt first before adding it. But for dosage, I have a 29 gallon tank, would that be 6 tablespoons? It just seems like a lot. Or are you only supposed to add salt during a water change and dose the volume of the new water you add to the tank?

Post 30 in this thread has information about salt. Use 1 heaped tablespoon per 5 gallons of water. If there's no improvement after 48 hours, double the dose so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 5 gallons of tank water.

One of the advantages of salt is you can overdose it a bit and not kill everything in the tank.

For your tank, you could add 5-6 heaped tablespoons but try to work out how much water is in the tank first. I have put a formula below for working out tank volume.

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To work out the volume of water in the tank:
measure length x width x height in cm.
divide by 1000.
= volume in litres.

There are 3.785 litres in a US Gallon
There are 4.5 litres in a UK gallon

When you measure the height, measure from the top of the substrate to the top of the water level.

If you have big rocks or driftwood in the tank, remove these before measuring the height of the water level so you get a more accurate water volume.

You can use a permanent marker to draw a line on the tank at the water level and put down how many litres are in the tank at that level.