Neon Tetra died...

[Flo_Evans]

Not sure what happened. He was stuck to the filter inlet, turned it off and he kind of flopped around on the surface then died. His belly is quite swollen, I have noticed sometimes when I feed bloodworms to other fish the neons try and eat some that seem way to big for them. Could he have choked on one?

Water was good, 0 ammonia 0 nitrites 0-10 nitrates (test strip...)

 

[treemanone2003]

It is quite possible that it choked to death. Only way to know would be to open it up and look. On the other side, not the hardiest fish to begin with and could have just been the weakest of the group. With regards to the strips, junk.


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[kirkland795]

I agree it could have choked to death. I once had a goldfish that nearly choked to death on a piece of gravel it swallowed. Of all the fish I've kept neons are the least hardy and I have had several die without warning myself. I would just keep a close eye on the other fish for a while.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Well it appears I have a murderer in the tank.

When I got home today a green Cory cat had most of its tail missing and was red all over the back part of his body. I think he might have messed with my German Rams.

Think I need a bigger tank (10gallon right now) I haven't seen any aggression when watching but who knows what is going on when I am gone. The cories are awful active, I've seen them try and rub on other fish before but no retaliation.

 

[treemanone2003]

Well it appears I have a murderer in the tank.



When I got home today a green Cory cat had most of its tail missing and was red all over the back part of his body. I think he might have messed with my German Rams.



Think I need a bigger tank (10gallon right now) I haven't seen any aggression when watching but who knows what is going on when I am gone. The cories are awful active, I've seen them try and rub on other fish before but no retaliation.

No there's other issues present. Red streaks/discoloration is a sign of ammonia poisoning. Will need to ask for tank parameters and what you're using to test them. How long has the tank been set up and what/how many fish are in there ? What's you're WC schedule as well ? Also, you really need a bigger tank. Rams should be in at least a 20g.


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[FishayFishay]

No there's other issues present. Red streaks/discoloration is a sign of ammonia poisoning. Will need to ask for tank parameters and what you're using to test them. How long has the tank been set up and what/how many fish are in there ? What's you're WC schedule as well ? Also, you really need a bigger tank. Rams should be in at least a 20g.


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+1 I agree

 

[Flo_Evans]

This is a fairly new tank. I've had a single small comet goldfish in a 2.5 gallon for almost a year (bad I know but he was doing great). 2 weeks ago I saw a 10 gallon on sale at Walmart and thought, ya know it's probaly time to upgrade and give him more room. So I transfered everything from the old tank into the new tank and added a fluval c2 (I like having more filtration than I need, and planned to upgrade the tank again as the goldfish grew).

After about a week everything seemed to be going well so I got 5 tetras and a small cory. 1 tetra died pretty quick, he seemed pretty faded so I figured he was just old. I went back to the pet store, but looking closer at thier tetra stock they all looked horrible. So I got the smallest blue ram they had.

Another week goes by and I decide the ram needs a woman, for some reason I also decided the cory cat needed some friends so I got 2 more. And some frozen bloodworms as a treat for everyone.

So at this point (Sunday) I had

a 2 inch goldfish
2 1.5 inch blue rams
4 neon tetra
3 green cories

Probably too much


I have a liquid test for ammonia, always read 0 through the whole ordeal. Strips told me 7.5ph (I was trying to bring it down to 7 with a small piece of driftwood) driftwood was coloring my water so I was doing a 20% water change every 2 days. Nitrites 0, nitrates between 10-20 (hard to tell on strips, I've ordered a liquid test for this but haven't got it yet).

I'm going to get a 20 long tommorow, hopefully I can get it setup and running before any more losses

 

[Patty1980]

Goldfish are cold water fish also and need a 20g minimum for one. Get an API master kit asap. Strips are worthless. Read up on what you have stock wise. Definitely some changes need to be made.

 

[treemanone2003]

Goldfish are cold water fish also and need a 20g minimum for one. Get an API master kit asap. Strips are worthless. Read up on what you have stock wise. Definitely some changes need to be made.

+1 for sure !!!!

This is a fairly new tank. I've had a single small comet goldfish in a 2.5 gallon for almost a year (bad I know but he was doing great). 2 weeks ago I saw a 10 gallon on sale at Walmart and thought, ya know it's probaly time to upgrade and give him more room. So I transfered everything from the old tank into the new tank and added a fluval c2 (I like having more filtration than I need, and planned to upgrade the tank again as the goldfish grew).



After about a week everything seemed to be going well so I got 5 tetras and a small cory. 1 tetra died pretty quick, he seemed pretty faded so I figured he was just old. I went back to the pet store, but looking closer at thier tetra stock they all looked horrible. So I got the smallest blue ram they had.



Another week goes by and I decide the ram needs a woman, for some reason I also decided the cory cat needed some friends so I got 2 more. And some frozen bloodworms as a treat for everyone.



So at this point (Sunday) I had



a 2 inch goldfish

2 1.5 inch blue rams

4 neon tetra

3 green cories



Probably too much





I have a liquid test for ammonia, always read 0 through the whole ordeal. Strips told me 7.5ph (I was trying to bring it down to 7 with a small piece of driftwood) driftwood was coloring my water so I was doing a 20% water change every 2 days. Nitrites 0, nitrates between 10-20 (hard to tell on strips, I've ordered a liquid test for this but haven't got it yet).



I'm going to get a 20 long tommorow, hopefully I can get it setup and running before any more losses

Definitely need to slow down, change your game plan and re-evaluate things first. Research is going to be your biggest ally right now.

The goldfish MUST be in its own tank to start with. It's a cold water fish as Patty said and as far as "doing great", that's very debatable and likely not the case. As well, AT LEAST a 20g and some even say 30g as a minimum. Also it's a fairly sociable fish and many say 2 is better than 1. At that point I would say no smaller than 40g and preferably a pond. By now it's probably quite stunted. Here's a chart to reference that thought.
http://www.fishkeeping.co.uk/images/articles/goldfish_size/goldfish_size_chart.jpg

As for the neons, they're probably the least hardy of fish in the hobby and I have no clue why they're still sold, but that's besides the point. Also, the larger the group (6+) the "better" they do. A better choice IMO is the cardinal if you're looking for the red/blue colors. Much hardier fish.

The cories need at least a 30g. They could probably be kept safely with the goldfish as they are a cooler water fish. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+1161+944&pcatid=944

Rams are recommended for at least a 20g. They also require a mature tank and pristine water conditions and do better in planted tanks with plenty of hiding spaces. They can also be very difficult to keep for the inexperienced hobbyist. http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=830+889+1084&pcatid=1084

So an overall summation of what's up with your system. It may sound harsh but it's just what it is and I'm not one to sugarcoat things.
1. ICH is present and was stress induced.
2. Stress was brought on by improper stocking. Both tank mates and tank sizes leading to poor tank conditions.
3. You have a ton of info and need to decide the path to pursue. Wether it's rehoming some to friends, getting larger tanks to match their needs, etc., either way they still need treatment. Don't just give them away without explaining what's up.
4. This could've been extremely preventable with just a little research.


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[Flo_Evans]

What makes you think I have an ich infection? I looked closely this morning, none of the other fish have fin damage or the redness I saw on the Cory cat. The remaining tetras in fact look better than when I brought them home. I know the goldfish prefers cold water, I never even had a heater when he was alone. Looking at that size chart though yeah he should probably be bigger.

Here are some pics from a week ago, everything seemed good until I added the 2nd ram and more cories.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Here is a pic of the dead cory, does it look like ammonia poisoning?

Is it possible his tail fin rotted and he overworked his muscles (lactic acid buildup?) I thought it looked like he was bitten/attacked but obviously I am not an expert.

 

[Flo_Evans]

ack, looks like now all my posts went through

 

[treemanone2003]

My apologies as that should have read "ich may be present and if so, stressed induced." It was pre coffee and my phone just doesn't like me.

As for the pic, I still believe that ammonia is the problem. The tail may have been chewed a bit by some of the others or possibly rotted just from sitting as it doesn't take long to happen. Here are some pics very similar to yours regarding ammonia poisoning.
https://www.google.com/search?q=amm...cWxggT494LYCg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=460
It's also possible that adding the new fish caused a "mini cycle" and you didn't see the parameters bounce around.


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[Flo_Evans]

That is very possible, I thought I was adding fish slowly but I must admit I got excited having multiple species and overdid it. To me it seems like an ammonia spike would affect the tetras or rams 1st as they are supposed to be the most fragile.

Regarding the goldfish stunting, will he be permanently stuck at that size or will he continue to grow in a bigger tank?

Still planning on picking up a 20 long (I think this is the biggest that can reasonably git on my mantle) on the way home today, not buying any more fish until I can get it sorted. Wish me luck!

 

[Coursair]

Goldfish do a majority of their growing in the first year. That is why it is so important to give baby goldfish large spaces so they have room to grow. Stunting shortens their lifespan. Single tail goldfish like yours can live over 20 years with good care. I would move him into his own container. Even if it's a 30 gallon bin just to give him room and get his wastes out of that tank.

I would return some fish or immediately purchase a larger tank.

We all make mistakes. It's how we go forward after learning that we made mistakes that makes a difference.


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[treemanone2003]

I would think the cories or goldfish would see the problems first IMO since they're both listed to be in much larger tanks and probably the most stressed.

As for the goldfish, it's a 50/50 shot at this point. The only thing to increase any chances of that happening would be large weekly WC's of no less than 50%. With the current load you have in the tank I would push for two 50% WC's.

As for only getting a 20g, it would be best to rehome at least the cories, if not all the others. The cories aren't cut out for less than 30g tanks, the Rams will be fair unless they become a pair. At that point when laying/guarding eggs, they will become aggressive and lookout tank mates. They also require pristine water conditions and with the poop factory you have going on, well it will be difficult.


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[Coursair]

Get a 20Long not a 20high if you can only get a 20g. Bigger is better. A 40breeder would be best.

You'd still need a diff tank/pond for the Goldfish.


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[Flo_Evans]

Okay I am slightly confused about the cories. I keep seeing conflicting info on their size and requirements. It seems there are 2 species commonly called "emerald green cory" ???

Brochis splendens and Corydoras Aenus ?

The easiest way to tell a brochis splenden from a corydora aenues (bronze cory) is by counting the rays on the dorsal (top) fin. Brochis have more then 10 rays where as an aenues and all other corys only have 7. They are also more stout and have a slightly longer snout but the top fin ray count is easier.

okay I found this, from my pic it looks like the 1st one is actually a bronze cory. Can't really count the dorsal rays on the dead guy, I will have to look at the other one at home (I got him from a different store).

 

[Coursair]

Emerald Green is Brochis splendens
Green/Bronze Cories are C aeneus.

It's good to know the Latin names as well as the common names.


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[Flo_Evans]

Update

Good to know, pretty sure they where marked emerald green in the fish store.

New tank transfer went well. One of the tetras was sketchy for a bit, seems like I didn't clean the gravel well enough and had ammonia readings of .25ppm for awhile. I got some prime cause I heard that makes it safe, I dunno it's back at zero now and everyone is alive.

Still looking for a good home for goldfish, I was too slow on a nice 50gal setup for $50.