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Tank120

Aquarium Advice Freak
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I lost my prized Oranda two days ago with what looked like two spots of ich on his wn. Nothing anywhere else, and definitely none near the gills. They came up in a couple of days. My son was in from VA with his family and I didn't get get to the store until the next day to get uniodined salt. By that next morning, it was too late.

Now my Lionhead Oranda has a couple of spots on his wen. I am ready to do a saltwater dip, but when I looked at him this evening I saw something that I have never seen. He has a large green area on one of his fins. No shredding like tail rot. There is also some of this blackish green color on the scales near the fin. The color does not completely cover the scale. I tried to get the best pictures possible, but I do not think you can see the blackish/green areas on the scales. I need help to figure out what this is.
 

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Hi! White spots or 'pimples' on the wen of a goldfish is actually just normal wen growth and nothing to be concerned about. However, for this fish to die and have other fish with health concerns indicates a serious problem. We will need some more information in order to be able help!

Tank size?
Filtration?
Stocking?
Diet?
Exact parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and ph (gh and kh if you have these)?
What you are using to test (liquid or strips)?
Water change schedule (%/# wk)?
When was the last time you introduced a new fish/was it quarantined for a couple of weeks?
Have you addressed flukes/do you annually or bi-annually?
Any other symptoms beyond the discoloration (odd waste, lack appetite, rapid breathing, piping, flashing, red sores or streaks, etc)?

Thanks!
 
120 gallon tank. Fluval FX5 mostly bio media but one tray of charcoal. PH 8.2. Hardness 300. Nitrites zero. Nitrates 40. Using test strips. 50% of water is changed every two weeks. Diet - Cobalt premium sinking goldfish food with probiotics. Omega One sinking goldfish pellets, medium. Shelled peas at least once a week. The last two fish were introduced two months ago. They are perfectly healthy. The 7" Oranda that passed away, only had two white spots on it's WEN, which apparently would have been growth spots. No indications of disease. Bowel movements were Norma. I had only noticed diminishing appetite. How long is the lifespan of an oranda? I guess I have never noticed growth spots on Betty' Wen, because she has a white Wen. The Lionhead Oranda also has grou spots on its when. I guess that is Wen. What has me worried is the green on its tail and the green scales. These scales are not completely covered and there are only about 6 of them. For the first time this morning, I noticed that there is a little tattered area near the green on the end of the tail. I definitely need to know what this is! I have never seen anything like it before. It could be some type of fin rot, but normally you just notice the fraying and nothing else. I have never seen any with color. He is eating and pooping normally. He is very active, just like before. I know my first step is going to be to do another 50% water change and then to add nitrifying bacteria to the water. I would really like to know if anybody knows what this is? At this point I do not know whether to do a saltwater dip, which can be stressful on sick fish, or to do a total salt treatment to the tank ?

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Excuse the spelling errors and also the incomplete words, I'm using Dragon and it is still getting used to my speech.

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Forgot to answer the question about flukes. I have never seen a fluke on one of my fish. I was extremely upset about losing my 7 inch Oranda. The tank can obviously support several more fish, but my LSS does not bring in more goldfish until spring.

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Do you know your ammonia levels? This is the first place I would start in addition to increasing your water changes to weekly or more frequently along with good gravel vacs until this situation can be brought under control. The API fw master test kit is a great investment and it will also give you accurate readings for all of your parameters. Strips are notoriously inaccurate. Adding any type of bottled bacteria product is not suggested- just use a good water conditioner such as Prime.

Flukes are not visible to the naked eye. If you have a microscope, you can run gill and skin scrapes to see if they are present. Almost every goldfish from a commercial source has flukes to some degree. Adults may be asymptomatic or only show symptoms when the infestation has done resulted in severe gill damage and/or resulted in internal infections. I can see small black dots on the body and tail of the fish in the second picture (in addition to the odd fin color). This is indicative of skin flukes.

My suggestion in addition to increasing the water changes and gravel vacs is to increase the tank salinity gradually to .1% (or 3.8 grams per gallon) and treat everyone for a full course with praziquantel. If the tail condition does not improve with wcs and salt, additional meds may be necessary. Please ask any questions!
 
In America. Need dosages for 120 gallon tank in tablespoons or teaspoons. Have already bought 6 containers of uniodized salt. Should I dip the sick fish and how much for 5 gallon bucket? I will search for the recommended treatment. What worries me is, that of course, my only supply of fish is from a LFS. DOES this mean I will always be fighting flukes?

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My husband is also curious if an ultraviolet light would kill larvae? I know it would not kill the attached ones.

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In America. Need dosages for 120 gallon tank in tablespoons or teaspoons. Have already bought 6 containers of uniodized salt. Should I dip the sick fish and how much for 5 gallon bucket? I will search for the recommended treatment. What worries me is, that of course, my only supply of fish is from a LFS. DOES this mean I will always be fighting flukes?

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Thanks! 3.8grams of salt is approximately one level teaspoon. Walmart has small kitchen scales for less than $5 if you wish to be more accurate as different grain sizes weigh different amounts (ie, 1 tsp of table salt does not weight the same as 1 tsp of API salt or rock salt). Make sure you predissolve the salt first in some conditioned water before gradually adding the salt solution to your tank over a 12-24hr period of time.

I personally would not salt dip the fish but quite a few people are proponents of this method. Your welcome to do so if you want.

Keep in mind, you also have online sources for goldfish as well as private breeders. You are not limited to your lfs. Once they have been addressed properly in your main tank, any new fish you wish to add should be properly quarantined for a minimum of four weeks and treated for flukes while in qt.

PraziPro (made by Hikari) is the easiest product to use for someone new to praziquantel as it is a liquid. Powdered prazi does not dissolve in water and needs to be accurately measured. Prazi is very safe, very effective and will not harm your good bacteria. Prazipro is available online on Amazon, Ebay and pretty much any large aquatics dealer (Pet Mountain, Drs Foster & Smith, Big Al's, etc). You will need a large bottle for treating this size tank. Please ask any questions!
 
Ordered the PraziPro. I have never ordered fish before because of extremely high shipping costs. Do you have reputable sites or breeders to buy from?

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Raingarden has the most reasonable rates for shipping costs. If you do not see anything you like, just email Steve and let him know what you are interested in. Dandyorandas has absolutely stunning fish for sale in their live auctions but they are pricey (for me anyway!). Buygoldfishonline has reasonable rates as well and also sells fish on Ebay. I have not personally purchased from them but people who have are very happy with their fish.

Another option is to contact breeders directly or check the classifieds of the large goldfish forums such as Goldfish Keepers or Kokos. I will likely have some babies for sale in the late spring, too. The only thing right now is weather concerns (snow and subzero temps) for shipping fish. Hope this helps! :)
 
What kind of babies do you expect in the Spring? Rain Garden does have beautiful fish and it is great to see pictures of the one you buy.

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Have you looked at the stickied "Visual Perspective" thread in Coldwater fish? If not, have a look. I have 3 and 4 week old fry right now from my giant orange telescope momma crossed with a large black moor. A few of these babies will be absolute monsters like their mom but it takes a few months for their color and telescope eyes to develop. I also have a few slightly older black moor fry (tri-color black moor x black moor). Telescopes and moors are not for everyone but I do not have any other breeding age fish inside right now and unfortunately lost some of my other breeders last spring. I will hopefully getting some new blood when the temps warm up a bit! :)
 
I would be interested in a couple of telescopes. I will take a look at your fry. I also love Ryunkins and as of this date do not have any.

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Remind me in the spring! I am curious to see how these guys develop as this is the first bunch of fry from my monster mom. I can send you some pics when they get a bit bigger. :)
 
Pics would be great! I can't wait to watch them grow. I ordered some NLS as per your suggestion on another thread. I also did not know the vegetables needed to be slightly cooked. TY

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Tank setup as to date

JLK, the PraziPro should be here today. I did a 70% water change. Then I converted those teaspoons to cups, major pain :) I added a little bit every few hours over a a 24 hours period. I noticed this morning that Ping's spots are gone. Tail fin is still green but does look better. The water is just a bit cloudy, is that normal? PraziProl should totally eradicate it all. In a separate order, I did order an API test kit; pH, nitrates, nitrites and ammonia. Also ordered the NLS, but I think I will use up the foods that I have not as there was not much difference in quality. Need to know, when the weather is warm and your telescopes are ready, the limit of my 120 gallon with Fluval FX5? 3 stages of BioMedia, 1- course polishing pad and one fine polishing pad, charcoal on one level (925 gph). I currently have 6-fish (two orange and white lionheads, 1 calico lionhead, one comet inherited from a friend, 1 white and orange oranda, one red cap oranda and then the addition of the telescopes. I would love to have a pair of Panda orandas, like Ryunkins but not necessary. I realize the sizes of adult fish. Most are 6"-9". My one little white and gold lionhead was purchased at the same time as the other one and is 1/2 the size of the other. I do not think that Ping will ever be very large. I think we will be lucky if he ends up 4".
 
That's great that the spots are starting to clear! They should be prazi'd anyway- its very easy but please ask when you get it because you will not be following the exact instructions on the bottle. Just a reminder now- the charcoal must be removed.

Has your water cleared up some since posting this? Is everyone acting normally? If so, do not be overly concerned. I am not sure if you have a question about your stock list? Let me if you have any concerns and I will do my best to help! :)
 
The water did clear. I am sorry. I of course used it when I got it. I am assuming that it is not too late to adjust the concentration, etc?:( I did remove the carbon which is an extreme pain in the Fluval FX5. It has to be clear full to the top to prime. So of course water came out. I was prepared with towels. My fish are just a tiny bit sluggish this morning but they were also mad at me. I read that you should soak dried foods. It is not what they are used to. I have a bit of a concern that maybe my salt conversion was not accurate. I no longer have a refracnometer. I gave it to my SIL who still has saltwater tanks. I may go ahead and do a 10%-20% water change to see if that peps them up. I don't want to do a large one too soon. I do not want to shock the fish. Yes, I was asking you about my stocking plans. I do not know if it is too much for the tank? Right now, all of a sudden, I feel like I am doing everything wrong.

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