New tank water problems + ich

[SpyGuy]

For my daughter's 5 year birthday, I set up a new 14g tank (Aqueon kit including filter, heater, etc.). I was only able to prep it 4 days in advance, so I know the cycle was incomplete. To prep it, I added the gravel and water (treated with Aqueon Water Conditioner), turned on the filter and heater, and seeded the tank with a tiny pinch of fish food flakes plus some Biozyme. I also added 3 Tbs of aquarium salt. The stick-on LCD thermometer read about 80 deg F.

On her birthday, we went to the LFS and bought 4 small fish: a 1.5" gourami, a 2" sword marigold, a 1.5" red platy (actual size less than 1"), and a 2" common pleco. I brought in a sample of water and the guy tested it with two test strips. He seemed puzzled and ran a third strip, then announced that he was surprised because everything read "good". I was skeptical because I didn't see any real color changes occur on the strips, so I think they may not have been working.

I also bought a large piece of very convoluted driftwood (lots of surface area) from one of the store's established tanks, so I figured that would help with charging my tank with beneficial bacteria (although I was a little concerned about disease introduction, because all the driftwood was stored in a goldfish tank). I also bought some live plants because I thought those would help with regulating the chemicals in the water.

In about 5 days, the gourami died. Two days later, the marigold also died. Actually, my daughter seems to be taking their loss much better than I am.

I ordered an API master test kit from Amazon with 2-day shipping (supposed to arrive on Friday, 31 Dec, but UPS screwed up the delivery so I didn't get it until today).

On Sunday, I noticed white spots all over the platy. I couldn't tell if the pleco had any because he was staying fairly well-hidden and his skin is naturally mottled, so spots are less obvious. But this morning it looked like there were some on his tail and dorsal fins. The pleco ate little over the weekend and this morning was very lethargic.

So this morning the test kit arrived and, as feared, the water is a mess. These are the results:
pH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.5 ppm
Nitrite: 1.0 ppm
Nitrate: 5.0 ppm

I guess that whatever bacteria came with the driftwood was not enough to really establish the tank's cycle. In any case, I immediately performed a 40% partial water change (5g), again treating the water with Aqueon Water Conditioner. I did match the temp of the new water to that of the tank.

This afternoon, I went to the LFS to buy some ich medication for the fish. There were only two choices: Tetra Lifeguard tablets (broad-spectrum non-antibiotic all-in-one treatment) or Mardel Coppersafe. I chose not to go with the Coppersafe because I think it warned against using with scaleless fish (pleco?) and live plants. So that left only the Lifeguard, which I purchased. But I'm not sure how that can cure ich because the Lifeguard is a 5-day treatment regime and I've read the ich life cycle can last for weeks (unless the Lifeguard can kill more than just the free-swimming stage of the parasite).

I also purchased an in-tank thermometer (reading 78 deg; 2 deg lower than the stick-on), and some Prime which I'm hoping will help with neutralizing the ammonia (the LFS where I bought the tank didn't have Prime or I would have bought it before instead of the Aqueon Water Conditioner).

Anyway, I'd like some advice before I proceed adding any chemicals/meds to the tank. Obviously, I have two battles to wage: the bad water chemistry and the ich. I don't have a quarantine tank (and I think getting one at this point would be futile considering the size of my tank, the "newness" of my tank, and the fact I'm down to only two fish).

Thanks in advance from a distressed dad.

 

[dkpate]

Welcome to the forum!

First off, that pleco is going to get WAYYY too big for that tank. They can get up to 2 feet (they don't tell you this in the store). I would see about taking him back (after treatment) and getting a smaller pleco or cory catfish.

Second, good job on the Prime. Since your tank is cycling (faster than expected too, since you already have nitrates) you will need to do a water change any time the ammonia gets above .25 ppm, same with nitrites. If you have to do a water change every day, go ahead. I was sometimes doing 2 pwcs a day. Also, the Prime will bind to the ammonia, making it non toxic, which means it is still in there and you will get readings for it, but it's fairly harmless to the fish.

Why did you add salt? Don't use salt, especially with the pleco in there. Salt usually kills live plants too.

The best thing I can recommend right now for the ich treatment (since you don't have many med options) is raise the temp to 86* for 10 days. The ich will go through their life cycle faster, and they can't reproduce in that high of temp.

There are no other chemicals you need to add to your tank. Don't let them talk you into pH Down/Up, ammonia removers, etc. Prime is the only thing you will need for your tank.

I always use the stick on thermometers AND an inside one.

 

[SpyGuy]

Thanks for the reply and the welcome.

Regarding the pleco, I realize it will eventually out-grow this tank. My plan is to later add a larger tank to the house and then transfer him to that. I suspect I have several years before it will be a concern. If I got a smaller pleco, that would just postpone the upgrade by a couple of years. Right?

The water change yesterday make a remarkable and almost immediate improvement on the health of the fish. The platy is now swimming all over the place very actively (despite the ich) and the pleco is eating again. I'm going to do another water change now. Since I *know* the water chemistry is better today than yesterday (but still isn't right), and I'm performing daily changes (and I have no intention of trying to adjust the chemistry with chemicals), then I see no real reason to test the chemistry today before the change.

About the Prime, should I size the dosage on the total volume of the tank? Or just on the amount being changed? I think that since I still have an ammonia problem, better to size the initial dose for the tank volume, then size the subsequent doses based on the daily water changes.

About the salt... when I was first buying the tank at the LFS, I saw that each of their freshwater tropical tanks had a cup of salt submerged in them. I asked about this and was told that it's beneficial for freshwater fish to have some salt in the water. So I picked up a package of API Aquarium Salt (which I have the impression is a fairly good brand) and it said it's for freshwater fish, and claims: "Adds essential electrolytes, improves gill function, promotes disease recovery." I didn't want to just dump a cup of the salt in the tank like at the LFS, so I dosed according to the package directions. Actually, the package says "As a general tonic and stress reducer" add 1 rounded Tbs for every 5g. Since I only have a 14g aquarium (and some of that is occupied by gravel, etc., I only added 3 level Tbs.

Since I'm performing daily 5g water changes until things get better, I was planning on adding 1 Tbs every other day to keep the salinity somewhat balanced. Technically, I should be adding 1 Tbs with every water change (assuming the package instructions are correct), but since the salt grains are very coarse, I'm not sure if they will completely dissolve in 24 hours and I don't want to over salt the tank (although salt is supposed to help treat disease, especially ich). So why should I not be using any salt? Because of the pleco? (I'm not so concerned about the plants. If they die, so be it... better than the fish. I won't feel as guilty and they are easy to replace. Besides, I've already discovered that at least one of the plants is not a true aquatic. Bad LFS.)

I have been slowly raising the temp. (Very slowly because the heater is a submersible so there is quite a bit of static friction and "grabbing" caused by the adjustment knob shaft seals. That makes it VERY difficult to get fine temperature adjustments.) But from what I've read about ich, increasing the temp will speed up it's life cycle (good for treating the ich with medication in a shorter period of time), but I've never read that temperature alone will kill the parasite. Usually, the "natural" cure is to increase temperature AND use a high dose of salt.

In any case, any reason why I shouldn't use the Lifeguard? I assume it's because it will probably kill my nitrifying bacteria colonies. But at this point, isn't the ich more dangerous? I can alway keep changing the water while I wait for the cycle to start again.

The stick-on thermometer is junk: it's inaccurate and almost impossible to read (too dark). The in-tank thermometer is almost junk: too small to read without a magnifying glass and the scale goes from 30 deg F to 110 deg F (how stupid is that for an aquarium thermometer?) in the span of 1.5 inches, making it very imprecise.

 

[dkpate]

A smaller breed of pleco, like a bristlenose or something.

When most of us on here use the Prime, we use just enough for the bucket when we are topping off the tanks, and when doing a water change, use enough for the whole tank.

If it was beneficial for fish to have salt in the water, they would all live where the ocean meets the rivers (brackish), and there would be none in the lakes or any other freshwater. When you use salt, you dissolve it in another container before you put it in the tank, that way your fish won't eat it. Plecos are scaleless, and therefore don't like salt. Ever seen salt put on a slug? Eww. LOL. The heat itself will take care of the ich.

The temp being 86* will cause the ich parasite to go through it's lifespan faster, and it also can't reproduce in that high of a temp. Well, there is one very rare strain that can live in temps of like 91* or something.

You can use the Lifeguard if you want. Salt, heat a meds seems kind of stressful to me, not to mention the whole ordeal of moving from the LFS to your tank.

My stick on thermometer works perfectly (PetSmart) and my internal thermometer is about 5 inches long, and easily read.

 

[SpyGuy]

Thanks again Darby for your helpful advice. I just performed another 40% water change (5g) using 1.25ml of Prime (the instructions say 1ml/10g, but I don't have a 1.4ml measure, plus the gravel takes up volume, plus I'm not filling the tank completely because I want the cascading water from the filter to help oxygenate the tank). While I was at it, I rinsed the filter cartridge ("pad" would be a better description) with the water I was discarding from the tank.

Regarding the salt, I had previously read some online "pros" for adding salt to freshwater aquariums. But after your post, I did some more in-depth searches and found there appear to be two sides to this issue. After a lot of reading and thinking, I agree with you that it shouldn't be necessary for a healthy freshwater tank.

I'm going to start strictly with the plain heat treatment (plus water changes) and see how that works. If the ich doesn't subside, then I'll have to decide whether to try a salt treatment or go with the Lifeguard.

My stick on thermometer came with the Aqueon tank kit. It doesn't seem to be accurate and it certainly isn't easy to use (it's so dark, I need a bright flashlight to read it). Where did you get your in-tank thermometer? Remember the brand? My LFS only had a couple of in-tank thermometers (both the same as the one I got) and a couple of digital. I've read bad reviews about these cheaply-made (though not necessarily cheaply-priced) digitals, so I don't trust the ones they are selling.

 

[dkpate]

You can dose alot of Prime before it becomes harmful to the fish (5x's the Prime). One thread on the cap treats 10 gallons, so you could safely just fill it up to the first thread, or the second thread.

I forgot to tell you too, that with the higher temps, the oxygen in the tank is lower, so adding an airstone or lowering the water level (like you did) so the filter water cascades more, is a really good idea.

The heat should work, just make sure you keep it at 86* for at least 10 days, even if you don't see spots on your fish. The ich could be in it's dormant cyst stage in the gravel at this point.

I got the stick on therm @ Walmart, and the inside therms at PetSmart. They were both $2-3. I have found that if the inside therm has a black suction cup, it works alot better than the ones with the green suction cups. Don't ask me why, because I don't know LOL.

 

[SpyGuy]

Well, I hope 86 deg F does the trick, because that's the max I can get out of my heater. It's not for lack of watts; it's limited by the upper end of the thermostat adjustment.

I'm keeping the water level just above the minimum required for the HOB filter to operate. There is about 1.5" of drop from the outfall to the water surface and a steady stream of bubbles are cycling all the way to the gravel. So hopefully that's providing enough oxygenation. It seems to be as both the platy and the pleco seem a lot healthier than they were a couple of days ago (no doubt due to the water changes).

Oh, when you said your in-tank thermometer is about 5" long, were you referring to the total length of the glass envelope? If so, then mine is about the same. The problem is that the temperature measurement scale within is small: only 1.5", covering a temperature differential range of 80 deg F! No precision whatsoever, and I have to use a flashlight and magnifying glass to take a reading.

 

[dkpate]

Yeah, my therm is that length with the temp reading strip at about 4 inches. I looks almost like the ones you buy for the outside of your house.

Clean water = Happy fish!