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Old 07-03-2011, 10:25 PM   #61
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You shouldn't have any issues with prime... I think the majority of us that are dosing ferts use prime with no issues.

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Old 07-03-2011, 10:27 PM   #62
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You shouldn't have any issues with prime... I think the majority of us that are dosing ferts use prime with no issues.
Do you thinking that the prime/ ferts were reacting with the pH solution?
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:29 PM   #63
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I'm sure you know to wait an hour or two before you test after the PWC. It can take a little while to balance out.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:35 PM   #64
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Do you thinking that the prime/ ferts were reacting with the pH solution?
You need to let the tap offgas for a few hours before determining the pH. And, pH swings aren't really that big of an issue with fish... it's hardness and other factors that cause issues. If you're using the same water source, and aren't buffering the water with anything (like a crushed coral, peat, or a specialized buffer), then you shouldn't have any issues. Tap water chemistry can change with the seasons, but it should be minimal enough to cause no harm.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:39 PM   #65
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You have been such a great help! I am going to go do a pwc but first I am going to get a pH reading of the tank water then after the pwc I will get another pH reading... I will tell you how it goes
I am happy to have helped. I love planted tanks and I can understand your pain with the troubleshooting. This was a learning experience for me too. And I thought I knew alot before O.O. heheje

As for the pH issue...it seems from your tests and your observations that your ferts are already bumping up the pH to something more basic. The prime does seem to react with something there to up it a bit more which is a problem for you. I think you may have to make some choices to change something in order to keep your pH in a normal range. You could try chemicals to lower pH, but I don't personally recommend this as I don't personally like to do too much chemistry beyond what is necessary for a planted tank. I would consider changing ferts if you can figure out if its your macros or micro that are the trouble. Or find a different conditioner that doesn't exacerbate your pH problem.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:41 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfdrookie516

You need to let the tap offgas for a few hours before determining the pH. And, pH swings aren't really that big of an issue with fish... it's hardness and other factors that cause issues. If you're using the same water source, and aren't buffering the water with anything (like a crushed coral, peat, or a specialized buffer), then you shouldn't have any issues. Tap water chemistry can change with the seasons, but it should be minimal enough to cause no harm.
So you would say forget the pH and just treat for the bacterial sickness? And how would you go about treating it?
One of my rossy barbs had something very similar to this, and you will call me crazy but to treat it I dipped the fish in salt water for 30 seconds. And guess what! The bacteria was gone the next day! Should I just do a salt dip on the anglefish?
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:45 PM   #67
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Man, I'm not the best at ID'ing diseases... It seems that Kai has given you some good advice so far. I will say that a lot of what you're describing does sound like columnaris though. It doesn't have to be on their mouth, it can be on their body too. One of the things I've found out about columnaris is that it hates salt. It also loves higher temperatures. That's the double edged sword. If it's not, lowering the temp could increase the disease they have if it's not columnaris, but will help if it is. I think frequent water changes are the best cure for anything, and definitely something I would be doing. There's more than one way to skin a cat though, so what one person prefers may not be what the next person prefers. For me, daily 50% water changes (or more %/frequency if you want) would be the first thing to do. If you notice more fuzzy growth, patches on the body, or see any cottony looking growth on the mouth, it's most likely columnaris. If it's more just clamped fins and lazy behavior, it's probably a parasite of some sort. Like I said, I'm horrible at disease ID's though. Just speaking from experiences.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:45 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfdrookie516 View Post
You need to let the tap offgas for a few hours before determining the pH. And, pH swings aren't really that big of an issue with fish... it's hardness and other factors that cause issues. If you're using the same water source, and aren't buffering the water with anything (like a crushed coral, peat, or a specialized buffer), then you shouldn't have any issues. Tap water chemistry can change with the seasons, but it should be minimal enough to cause no harm.

Heyas MFD...just to summarize the 7 pages of thread for you... there isn't a pH swing that we are trying to figure out...it's more like its really basic water...the thread is a bit long to follow, but basically she was testing tank water, not tap. I asked her to test tap water to see what the pH of that was before adding it to the tank. The tap water is close to 7.0/neutral and isn't the problem. But with ferts and prime it is off the card chart into basic range. We have been trouble shooting that.

I agree with you that adding peat along with the driftwood in the tank will help to buffer the water for a lower pH in the future. The angelfish will like that anyways
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:47 PM   #69
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Heyas MFD...just to summarize the 7 pages of thread for you... there isn't a pH swing that we are trying to figure out...it's more like its really basic water...the thread is a bit long to follow, but basically she was testing tank water, not tap. I asked her to test tap water to see what the pH of that was before adding it to the tank. The tap water is close to 7.0/neutral and isn't the problem. But with ferts and prime it is off the card chart into basic range. We have been trouble shooting that.

I agree with you that adding peat along with the driftwood in the tank will help to buffer the water for a lower pH in the future. The angelfish will like that anyways
And, that's what i get for skimming... and being tired. I don't see how ferts can cause a pH issue though. I need to test mine just to see (never even considered that).
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:52 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by mfdrookie516
Man, I'm not the best at ID'ing diseases... It seems that Kai has given you some good advice so far. I will say that a lot of what you're describing does sound like columnaris though. It doesn't have to be on their mouth, it can be on their body too. One of the things I've found out about columnaris is that it hates salt. It also loves higher temperatures. That's the double edged sword. If it's not, lowering the temp could increase the disease they have if it's not columnaris, but will help if it is. I think frequent water changes are the best cure for anything, and definitely something I would be doing. There's more than one way to skin a cat though, so what one person prefers may not be what the next person prefers. For me, daily 50% water changes (or more %/frequency if you want) would be the first thing to do. If you notice more fuzzy growth, patches on the body, or see any cottony looking growth on the mouth, it's most likely columnaris. If it's more just clamped fins and lazy behavior, it's probably a parasite of some sort. Like I said, I'm horrible at disease ID's though. Just speaking from experiences.
The body is almost covered with white (not quite fuzzy) stuff. It almost looks like sand on the fish. But I don't think it is ick because wouldn't the other fish have it by now?
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:53 PM   #71
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I'm just re-stating what I've heard here... could it be their slime coat peeling off? I've seen jsoong talk about this before, though I don't know much about it. If it's not specks like salt, then I wouldn't think ich. Does it look more like dandruff or dry skin? Prime is supposed to have some kind of slime coat stuff in it I think, but stress coat is a good option if you have some.
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:56 PM   #72
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Some pictures from today... if you notice in the black parts of the fish there is white stuff (it is also on the white parts it just doesn't show up in the pictures)
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Old 07-03-2011, 10:58 PM   #73
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On the head of the angle is does look like something is pealing up (slime coat?) But then towards the back it gets more salt looking... AHHHHHH!!!!!!!
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:01 PM   #74
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A little better?
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:02 PM   #75
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Just going off my interpretation of the pictures, I'd have to say it looks like the slime coat is coming off... it could be that you're seeing the same towards the back, but because it's white, it looks kind of like ich? That's my best guess. At this point, the only thing I can suggest are lots of pwc's. Even if your pH is changing, if you're using the same water source, you shouldn't have any issues. My 125 was running at 6.4 and I did 50% pwc's every week with tap that was 7.8... I wish I had something better to offer though.
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:06 PM   #76
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The back half of the fish looks like ick, but the fish is not showing any other sighs of ick (ex: no, rubbing up along the glass or dw)
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:14 PM   #77
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This is the attack plan for tomorrow:
Go to PETCO buy some melafix
Do a salt dip
And for the next couple of weeks I will do 50% water changes everyday.
Does that sound good?
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:21 PM   #78
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This is the attack plan for tomorrow:
Go to PETCO buy some melafix
Do a salt dip
And for the next couple of weeks I will do 50% water changes everyday.
Does that sound good?
sounds good to me

also add feeding peas to your fish as a regular part of their diet and keep us posted on how the angel is doing
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:24 PM   #79
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sounds good to me

also add feeding peas to your fish as a regular part of their diet and keep us posted on how the angel is doing
Could I feed her the same peas I eat at dinner? I don't think they are salted or anything... but do I have to cut them up, there is no way she could swallow those peas.
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Old 07-03-2011, 11:30 PM   #80
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All it lists in the ingredients it lists organic peas and that is it. Would they work if I cut them up?
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