Please help my Shubunkin, I need to act quickly.

[Ashrb7]

I would be grateful if anyone could help me with this. I'm extremely worried and I'm not sure where to turn due to there being multiple possibilities of what may be wrong.
It's long but any assistance would be much appreciated.

I have a 2 year old Shubunkin goldfish who is usually quite resilient and active. He's important to me and I love him a lot. He has always lived with his 8 year old fancy fantail goldfish tank-mate in a 45 gallon tank.
Usually I'm diligent and responsible about giving the tank a proper cleaning once a month. However, I haven't cleaned the tank for the past 2 months before tonight, and I deeply regret it. I did about a 50% water change. Before, the water was very murky and there were dangerous levels of ammonia present.
I've been extremely busy and going through personal hardships and that shouldn't be an excuse to neglect the health of my fish but it happened, and I certainly won't let it happen again. During this time I also neglected to perform water tests. I'm so mad at myself for letting this happen.


The issue at hand: My boy, Wolfgang, has recently developed some sort of peeling, lesion like mark on his head, right above the mouth. Though I haven't tended to their tank lately as I should, I do keep an eye on them daily to check for abnormalities and to make sure they eat well. I've noticed this for the past 2 days so it seems to be a fairly recent affliction.
He is acting as he usual does: swimming quickly to the top for food, swimming down for pellets, and swimming all around when I feed foods like thawed spirulina and brine shrimp. He's still quite an enthusiastic eater, but what's up with this mark on his head? He still swims around excitedly and his fins are not clamped at all. I'm scared of this going downhill fast. My other fish is acting normally and seems to have nothing wrong at all.

My suspicions are hole in the head disease or some type of bacterial infection.

The treatments I have on hand are KanaPlex, Furan-2, and Melafix.

I'd be greatly thankful for any advice on what this could be, how I should be treating it, if I should purchase any other treatments, and if I should move my sick fish to another tank, or just transport him for a temporary bath of some sort. I don't want to shock him too much.

I managed to take a couple pictures of what it looks like:

Thank you for reading this.

 

[nirbhao]

Poor guy!

I'm new to this, but I'm looking at my reference book right now, and it's leading me to Costia.

It suggests raising the temperature to 33° C for four days... That could work for tropical fish....

For chemical treatment, it recommends alkaline brilliant green, copper sulfate, potassium iodide and iodine, or trypaflavin.

It's very likely that there is a bacterial element as well.


I am responding because I imagine that it is distressing to have no replies in three hours. It probably feels like three days. I also find the practice of research valuable. I make no claim whatsoever to be an expert.

I'm referencing "Handbook of Fish Diseases" by Dieter Untergasser. It's supposed to be a good book.

Hopefully someone with more experience will share their insights soon. I hope you're able to get this guy feeling better really quickly.

 

[imamesshelpme]

Definitely move him to another tank if possible. It's always a wonderful idea to have a quarantine tank just in case.
I'm no expert either, however i think i remember something like this being caused by stress or ammonia burns. I am going to go do a little research on this though.

Ideally you need to clean your tank more often than once a month. A lot of people recommend once a week, however once a fortnight is suitable too. A lot of tank issues are down to the state of the water, so i would recommend partial water changes more often. Just disturb the gravel, fish out any visable poop, take out about 30-40%, and refill with tapsafe treated clean water.
So for now, water changes very often. A few times every week, since there is a health issue. Research is also key. I shall look too.
Update us with any new info!

 

[imamesshelpme]

Hi, so i've done a few quick searches, and it look's as though this is just an effect of poor water quality. However there are multiple things it could be.
It's most likely just a bacterial infection like you thought, which can be treated with AQ salt, and frequent water changes.
It may also be early stages of mouth rot. If the sore appears inflamed then it's worth treating as precaution.
Also, have you cycled your tank? If you haven't this may be a burn from constantly changing PH levels, which is a result of your tank trying and failing to cycle. If you haven't cycled the tank, look up the nitrogen cycle. From what i've heard the general idea is small water changes every day.
Hope i've been of some help.

 

[Ashrb7]

Hi, so i've done a few quick searches, and it look's as though this is just an effect of poor water quality. However there are multiple things it could be.
It's most likely just a bacterial infection like you thought, which can be treated with AQ salt, and frequent water changes.
It may also be early stages of mouth rot. If the sore appears inflamed then it's worth treating as precaution.
Also, have you cycled your tank? If you haven't this may be a burn from constantly changing PH levels, which is a result of your tank trying and failing to cycle. If you haven't cycled the tank, look up the nitrogen cycle. From what i've heard the general idea is small water changes every day.
Hope i've been of some help.

Thank you for the help. I haven't quarantined him as of yet but I may take that as a next step if his condition worsens. I was in the habit of cleaning once a month because it's a big tank and over the past 2 years I've had the tank, there haven't been any issues. I use a gravel vac and always make sure to clean everything and test the water levels. Like I previously mentioned though, I have been very negligent about the cleaning for the past couple months and haven't tested the water until recently. Bad move, I know. Up until this, the fish have been happy and healthy.
As for the nitrogen cycle, that's something I began researching the moment I got the tank; the tank has been properly cycled and has been going strong for a while.



The sore is not inflamed but it's red and the skin around it seems to be peeling slightly. Would you consider this to be closer to being a bacterial infection or mouth rot? The sore is not on his mouth, but above it.

I've salted the tank and did a 50% water change last night, and I'm going to do frequent changes this week like you had suggested. I'm not sure if I should treat the tank with something like furan or kanaplex, or if I should just keep on track with the water changes.

 

[Ashrb7]

Poor guy!

I'm new to this, but I'm looking at my reference book right now, and it's leading me to Costia.

It suggests raising the temperature to 33° C for four days... That could work for tropical fish....

For chemical treatment, it recommends alkaline brilliant green, copper sulfate, potassium iodide and iodine, or trypaflavin.

It's very likely that there is a bacterial element as well.


I am responding because I imagine that it is distressing to have no replies in three hours. It probably feels like three days. I also find the practice of research valuable. I make no claim whatsoever to be an expert.

I'm referencing "Handbook of Fish Diseases" by Dieter Untergasser. It's supposed to be a good book.

Hopefully someone with more experience will share their insights soon. I hope you're able to get this guy feeling better really quickly.

I appreciate your care and concern about my little guy. I too think there's a bacterial element involved here due to me being negligent about cleaning the tank.

 

[Ashrb7]

Here is another picture. What should I treat this with? I need to do something today. Kanaplex, Furan 2, or do I need to go out and find something else? I'm willing to drive a long distance if it's not at Petco to get this medication today because I don't want to wait in the mail for it.

 

[imamesshelpme]

Honestly, if you have a tank available it's better to transfer him to that as soon as possible to prevent the possibility of your other fish suffering the same condition. If you're worried about him feeling blue due to separation, you can always set up the tank next to, or close to his pal.
Wonderful to hear your tank is cycled though. That means we can rule out one of the possibilities.

Mouth rot is actually caused by a bacterial infection, so it's a bacterial infection just one that will take longer to treat. Also I've seen a few cases of mouth rot seems to be just above the mouth, rather than on it, so I'm thinking it's most likely the same thing. Quite a few websites recommend swabbing the infected area with hydrogen peroxide, and adding AQ salt too. I don't know how much it is where you are, but a bottle of hydrogen peroxide here is about £10. If you can find any treatments by Tetra or Prime, i highly recommend those, especially Prime.

As for the water, frequent water changes and a little salt will work wonderfully. I don't recommend any other treatments besides the hydrogen peroxide, as too many treatments and chemicals in the water may end up doing more bad than good.

 

[Ashrb7]

Honestly, if you have a tank available it's better to transfer him to that as soon as possible to prevent the possibility of your other fish suffering the same condition. If you're worried about him feeling blue due to separation, you can always set up the tank next to, or close to his pal.
Wonderful to hear your tank is cycled though. That means we can rule out one of the possibilities.

Mouth rot is actually caused by a bacterial infection, so it's a bacterial infection just one that will take longer to treat. Also I've seen a few cases of mouth rot seems to be just above the mouth, rather than on it, so I'm thinking it's most likely the same thing. Quite a few websites recommend swabbing the infected area with hydrogen peroxide, and adding AQ salt too. I don't know how much it is where you are, but a bottle of hydrogen peroxide here is about £10. If you can find any treatments by Tetra or Prime, i highly recommend those, especially Prime.

As for the water, frequent water changes and a little salt will work wonderfully. I don't recommend any other treatments besides the hydrogen peroxide, as too many treatments and chemicals in the water may end up doing more bad than good.

The only other decent sized tank I have is a 10 gallon which has not been used for a couple years. My fish is a pretty big guy (7, 7 1/2") but I know it'll only be temporary and best for the other fish.
So you recommended treating with a Tetra or Prime product? Right now I only have API medicine(Furan-2) and the KanaPlex. If you think those brands you mentioned will work better I'll get to a store as soon as possible today since I have to leave for work now. Should I be looking for a product that solely treats bacterial infections? Thanks.

 

[imamesshelpme]

A 10 gallon tank should be fine for now. Like you said, it's only temporary. If it hasn't been used for a couple of years, a good clean and some boiling water should ensure it's safe.
API medicines are good, however i don't know what Furan-2 is for. Prime is always my go to when things go wrong in the tank. And yes, a product that is solely for bacterial infections would be best. If you can find any hydrogen peroxide, i'd recommend investing in some of that too.

 

[Ranchew]

So sad to hear about your poor goldie ( As he is not currently showing signs of stress (from what you described) I would not jump to medication just yet. While it can work wonders to cure many diseases I think it is always best to treat with huge water changes, be careful not to shock him and I'm sure you know enough not to, and slightly elevated temperatures. It's odd that you would see raised ammonia levels as it is a cycled tank, I would have expected sky high nitrates instead . If you already have it, I would triple dose Seachem Prime to neutralize any ammonia in the tank, if you don't have some I would highly recommend getting some. As far as medications tho I personally would try to hold off, it's easy to panic dose and we don't want to mistreat and cause more stress on our waterbound buddies. Please do keep us updated and good luck!

 

[Delapool]

Just a note (not saying to use yet), I'd go for the furan 2 over the kanaplex or melafix in serious cases of bacterial lesions. You could try the melafix but may not work on bad cases. Salt may also work if case not too bad.

For all meds, having the water in top condition is essential else the fish is under stress or organic matter is soaking up the meds. So imo weekly water changes of 30% as standard going forward after you get tank sorted out now.

As you have well recognised, the tank going murky and ammonia building up points to a stressed tank. These things happen though. Another to keep an eye on is ph.