Please help: Sterbai Cory paralysis, twitching, "seizures"

[Alyssum]

Hello, I'm posting on this forum because one of my cories has had a rapid decline in health. I've posted on several sites and have gotten very little advice or none at all. I'm trying to be as detailed as possible with pictures and videos as well because I want to document this sickness. I have not seen many topics about it, maybe a few threads, but they never reach a conclusion. I am aware it isn't easy diagnosing fish and he will probably die, but I figure I might as well make his death somewhat meaningful or get some information.

Basically, he has lost function in his ventral fins and can't swim normally. He has bouts of twitching. Some say it could be poisoning of some sort or TB (curving spine) I've read of a similar cases on a forum with no conclusion and it seemed to happen to several of his cories, one after the other. Could this be contagious? Should I quarantine him again?

1. Water parameters
Temperature range. 76-79
pH: 7.6
Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite: 0, 0, 0
Water change frequency: Once a week, about 60%

2. Tank set up
a) Size. 10 gal
b) Substrate: Sand
c) Filtration: Tetra Whisper Filter
d) Furnishings: Some fake plants, a hideout made of slate
e) Other tank mates: two other sterbai cories and a betta
f) How long has it been set-up? 10 months

3. Symptoms / Problem description

Summary: Sudden change in behavior. Swam rapidly into side of tank (abnormally, not normal cory behavior swimming). Lost function of ventral and pectoral fins and thus cannot surface for air or turn with ease. Spine curves sometimes when he is still, but he straightens it. Darkened skin. Twitching.

10/30/2014

No change.

NEW VIDEO

http://v8.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=15zibkw&s=8

10/30/2014

I have observed that he cannot seem to use his bottom fins. He can't lift his body up with his ventral fins, which makes it difficult for him to feed. He has a hard time turning because he cannot move his pectoral fins very well, if at all. He scoots across the ground, lying flat on his belly. He does eat food, but cannot access it well because of the above problems. I don't think he can surface for air. The barbs of his pectoral fins seem grayish and faded, instead of bright beige like his tank mates. He twitches strangely every few seconds, but will have bouts where there is no twitching. Slightly darker skin tone.

10/28/2014

I don't know the gender...

Sudden onset of erratic swimming. I know cories like to swim against the glass, but this is different. It's expending all its energy swimming as fast as it can in the corner and actually made a crater in the sand from swimming so hard. It's twitching here and there when it stays still. I thought it was going to explode from using so much energy. Didn't think it'd make it until morning. I thought it may be swim bladder, but I'm not so sure. It isn't turning upside down, but instead just swims in a straight line, always staying upright.

Seems to have difficulty changing direction or going up for air. Does not seem interested in food because it is too busy swimming fast against a corner and breathing heavily. It was fine 10/27/2014 when I went to clean the tank. It was swimming with its buddies and did not appear to be stressed. Mere hours later, it was swimming like crazy and breathing heavily. I had noticed rapid breathing for the past couple days. Its barbels are very short/gone, but its been that way for months. It didn't seem to affect it in any way. It has been staying away from the other two here and there. I thought maybe its belly was a bit swollen, but I cannot say for certain. Reddish tint on gills and belly, don't know if that's normal.

4. Action taken (if any)

10/30/2014 Update: I have since returned him to the main tank. He has been fed and an air pump added.

I moved him to a small tub with tank water. I was concerned it might hurt itself or its tank mates. I was uncertain what to do about a heater, I know it's bad to let them sit in a tank without a heater when that is what they are used to. I have a small heater meant for a 5-10g so I was unsure if it was safe to put in the container. It was very late at night and I stood up trying to find an answer to what might be wrong, but it is very hard to diagnose a fish. Nothing really seems to fit. Some mention the possibility of poison from their barbs, but I figured he'd be dead by now and his breathing rapid, not slow. Could be parasites. I don't know. I've been treating the tank with kanaplex because my betta is a fin biter and I wanted to make sure he didn't have/get an infection. I added the last dose into the tank when I cleaned the water.

I've put six doses into the tank so far, spaced out as instructed, and waited about a week between each 3 round course so it didn't kill my bb. I figured it might help its barbels too because I read it might be from infection and I think I saw a little improvement, but not much. I put a pea into the tank after deshelling, boiling and crushing it because there was nothing else I could do and I figured if he had SBD it might help. Admittedly, I haven't been as diligent with cleaning the tank of leftover food because I've been working on a lot of projects and I feel really bad about that. The nitrates reached 50 ppm at one point, but I have since cleaned it twice or thrice. That's all I can think of that might have caused it.

5. Medications used (if any)

Kanaplex
A pea

Food: Omega one shrimp pellets and hikari disc

His tank mates are acting normal with no signs of stress. They both have long barbels and swim together. Right now he is staying still and twitching here and there. I assume he is exhausted from all the swimming. I don't know what to do. I feel helpless. I'm not expecting any miracles and he probably will die, but I'm hoping someone might know something...

I have pictures and a short video of his behavior. Unfortunately, it doesn't exhibit the same vigor and urgency that he had last night, but you can see something is not right. Sorry if the frontal photo is distorted, but he just sits in a corner and the container makes it look funny. Should I put the heater in the small container? I don't want to cook him. I had plants in there but they seems to be impeding his ability to swim to the surface because he'd get stuck, so I took them out.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Delapool]

It was fine 10/27/2014 when I went to clean the tank. It was swimming with its buddies and did not appear to be stressed. Mere hours later, it was swimming like crazy and breathing heavily. I had noticed rapid breathing for the past couple days. Its barbels are very short/gone, but its been that way for months.
-----------

Just checking but is the rapid breathing for several days prior to the water change or after?

Also is nitrates definitely 0? I know it can be done in a low stocked tank but am always bemused/impressed by it so just checking water readings are correct?

I would put him back in QT for the moment as it is less stress and just in case.

Also was there any change in tank when it started (eg new plants, temp change, water change) to trigger it?

I'm asking on water chemistry first to see if he could have been poisoned somehow or the readings are not correct and he is more sensitive to it.

After that if it has been chronic or sudden illness. If he had been eating/popping/schooling normally and weight was good. To see if internal parasites.

Then we are into bacterial/viral infections. Why are the barbels worn away? Is the discoloured skin like lesions? Has the bent spine been getting worse (although that could be other things).

Basically to see if we can eliminate anything.

Have you looked at trying medicated fish foods?

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

I've put my makeshift QT inside of a larger container with enough room to put lots of bath towels around the QT and enough height to make sure there is still enough air, then I partially cover the top of the larger container with another towel - making sure it is taut and not going to collapse into the QT. This has helped keep the water warm. I live in a warm area though.

 

[Alyssum]

Thanks for the suggestions. He actually looks outwardly healthy as far physical appearance, there are no lesions, his skin just looks more pigmented and darker than usual. I have tried kanaplex, it wasn't for him, but my betta. (did you see the video? Not sure if it posted)

http://v8.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=15zibkw&s=8

I also hoped it might help his barbels a bit, I saw a little improvement, but not much. I stopped kanaplex and haven't tried any other medications. No plants or decor have changed. One thing of note is that when I started dosing kanaplex about 5 weeks ago my heater died after dosing so for a couple days the temp dropped about 4-5 degrees, but I don't know if this would do much so far into the future. I cleaned the tank a couple days ago and replaced my filter with carbon in it and cut up the old one so the bb could grow on the new one.

I've been doing water changes and vacuuming the tank. It was 0 because I changed the tank water, but I tested before and it was 10 ppm using the API test kit. It's been around that for the past couple weeks, however it was about 50-100ppm about 3 weeks ago because I didn't clean the tank like I should have because I was doing a bunch of projects Another forum also suggested it might parasites, but I'm unsure how to proceed with quarantine or treating all of my fish. I am concerned about the effects it might have on my betta.

The cory eats food and has adapted to moving around which is surprising. He is able to keep up with other cories sometimes, he just can't swim or go up for air. Even in a shallow tank he wouldn't be able to, which is why I added an air pump to agitate the surface and maybe help get some oxygen into the water, but I could be misguided on what it does, just trying suggestions. I know bettas don't like moving current so it is very low and he has some plants to hide in, I also tried to baffle the bubbles so it's not too strong.

 

[Alyssum]

ughh it did a double post.

Argh, it deleted my message. I noticed he was breathing a bit faster a couple days before, but I don't know if that's significant because the other ones change their breathing pretty often (slow, normal, fast). It accelerated when he went crazy and he gets it now when he twitches.

They are 0 now because I cleaned the tank a couple days ago and have been vacuuming diligently. The past 2 weeks it's been about 10 ppm. Unfortunately, it was about 50-100 ppm (hard to determine when it's orange) about 3 weeks ago because I didn't clean the tank due to a bunch of projects

He has been acting healthy for all that time, he was schooling with his buddies before I cleaned the tank and ate food, but he was breathing a bit more rapidly. When my bf got home and we were going to bed he heard a little tap on the glass so he went to investigate. That's when he saw the cory swimming furiously against the glass. I am not sure if he rammed the glass and sustained an injury to the brain or he hit the glass because he was already having some kind of seizure or spasm.

I've treated with kanaplex for my betta's fin as a safety measure because he bites his fin. I also hoped it might help the cory's barbels. I saw a little improvement, but nothing huge, though I imagine barbels and fins don't grow all that quickly.

One thing of note is that when I started the first dose of kanaplex 5 weeks ago my heater died, so the temp dropped 4 degrees for 2 days, but I don't know if it'd affect him so far into the future and so quickly.

He looks like a healthy cory and you wouldn't know he was sick by his physical appearance. His skin is free of lesions and he's not too skinny or fat. It's just his mottling is a bit darker than it was and his spines have lost their beige color which might be necrosis of his fins, I don't know.

On another forum they suggested it might be parasites, but I am unsure how to proceed in treating him. I don't know if I should keep my betta out of the tank or if it would be beneficial that they all receive the treatment because it might be contagious. Or of course, quarantining him.

 

[Delapool]

Would nitrate poisoning or high-to-low nitrate shock fit? it seems a little out on timing otherwise could match? Links below.

He looks healthy to me so its either something off in the water chemistry (but not causing problems for other fish) or internal bacterial/parasites. Perhaps been a bit under stress from however he lost his barbels (especially as substrate is sand) and a change in water chemistry is a problem.

I would of gone for poisoning as well is my feeling. Also is your change water roughly temperature matched to tank?

Nitrate Poisoning | Goldfish Emergency

HOW DO HIGH NITRATE LEVELS AFFECT FISH HEALTH? |The Garden of Eaden

 

[Alyssum]

It sounds very close. He is exhibiting most of those symptoms, but is still eating. It doesn't say anything about paralysis, but other than that it fits the bill. I'm not sure what to do because I already changed the water so nitrates are low and the site you gave me recommends to lower it gradually and reduce temperature to 60 degrees...

 

[Delapool]

It sounds very close. He is exhibiting most of those symptoms, but is still eating. It doesn't say anything about paralysis, but other than that it fits the bill. I'm not sure what to do because I already changed the water so nitrates are low and the site you gave me recommends to lower it gradually and reduce temperature to 60 degrees...

Hi, I'd skip the temp decrease myself as other fish are doing fine. Imo I would just keep everything stable. Temp matched water changes and keeping nitrates down. What's your ph?

A running QT may be less stress for him if getting bothered but you would need it cycled or can pinch some cycled material from the main tank.

The reason I don't favour internal bacterial/parasites is that I find once the body goes out of shape it doesn't come back. However it's not like I see it very often though.

 

[Alyssum]

I am a bit worried that it's tuberculosis. His spine seems to be getting worse. I find it a bit strange though because I've treated with kanaplex, so it seems unlikely it would just appear. I heard the medicines in kanaplex can be used to treat TB (though it's tough to treat).

He can "right" himself and straighten with effort, but sometimes it will curve back on it's own. I don't want it infecting my other fish... Some suggest it might be parasites but do not explain what kind of parasites would cause this symptom. Another cause of bent spine is vitamin deficiency, I alternate between hikari disc and shrimp pellets, I know live food are best, so I'm mot sure if they are getting what they need.

I'm hoping it's not contagious. One thing I found interesting is that I was trying to catch him the net to move him briefly because I was cleaning the tank and he shot up in the water, which I haven't seen him do in almost a week. Obviously I scared him, but I don't know if he had some function in his bottom fins to do that or he managed to align himself vertically and propel himself upward.

I am not too hopeful he will get better, but I just want to know if I should treat for parasites, quarantine him or just leave it alone and try to keep things as clean as possible. PH is about 7.6 and I just cleaned 40%. It was at 10 ppm nitrate before cleaning.

 

[Alyssum]

Another one of my cories is starting to show symptoms. When he sits still his head starts floating upward like he has no balance and his spine is starting to go inward, not severely, it's very subtle. His upper fin is also going off to the side. I'm noticing a slight redness in the "armpits". I don't know what to do now. My fish are all gonna die.

 

[Delapool]

I'm going to stick with the nitrates as the issue and would QT. The alternative would be QT and treat with medicated fish foods.


For parasites I've copied in neon tetra disease below. I'm not sure which other fish types it could be a problem for but gives an idea of symptoms. Another cause could be genetics. I've also had bent spines develop with bacterial infections (probably as muscle tissue is destroyed).

Had they been pooping ok? Do they still look healthy? Still eating, etc.


http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/neondisease.htm

 

[Delapool]

I've copied in a link below which covers fish TB as well as other diseases.


http://badmanstropicalfish.com/fish_palace/tropicalfish_disease_identification.html#TB

 

[Matt68005]

If it is parasites they can actually break out of the gut and get into the bloodstream causing paralysis and shortly thereafter,death. Hole in the head is one nasty little parasite that can cause this, but since he's still alive it's hard to say, you asked which medication, metronidazole powder would be the way to go, best to order it online IF this is what you think is causing it, because it can spread to other tanks/fish and it is stubborn to kill.

 

[Delapool]

Yeah, metro would be my choice as well (as already tried kanaplex).

It would be nice if there was another symptom. Has anything new been added recently? Even plants?

 

[Alyssum]

I haven't added anything new to the tank in months. The only thing that changed was there was no carbon in the filter because I was treating with kanaplex, but I've since put carbon again. I don't think it's TB because I don't see many symptoms associated with it (lesions, lack of appetite, loss of color and scales ) except for curvature in the spine and it is also extremely rare. I looked on neon tetra disease and I don't see a lumpy appearance, bloating, or fin rot. I'm not sure about nitrate poisoning because the effect seems so delayed and I figure shock would have happened when I did the large water change when nitrates were in the 50-80ppm range. I don't know, you could be right. I'm guessing at this point. I keep coming back to internal parasites, but those don't exactly match either. They look almost completely normal on the outside as far as skin and color. They are still eating and defecating from what I can see. I'm worried about my betta too. His face has been pale most of the time as if he is always stressed, but he eats and swims like normal. If it's a parasite, doesn't that mean I should treat them whole tank, including my betta? It seems to be activating in one fish at a time and I fear it will continue. Seems too late for quarantine as they have been exposed to the sick fish for so long. Do i buy API general cure or metroplex by seachem?

 

[Delapool]

Can you get medicated foods? These are the most effective. I've copied a few links below.

Worse case is it could be a combination. The shaking could be nitrate poisoning which weakened the fish and now some bugs which a healthy fish would be fine with are now taking off. Eg the redness could be scepticemia.

The QT is essential as I've found the really sick fish go there so they can't cause problems for other fish.

Work is tying me up but will see if any side effects from metro dosing. Pretty sure prazi is fine but metro would be the one and not sure on that. Basically to see if you can dose to cover all bases or that could make it worse.


http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/fish-medication/medicated-food.html

http://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=161389151514#

 

[Alyssum]

Thanks for the response. Most people are now pointing towards parasites, so that is the best educated guess I have. I almost broke down in the LFS because they said there is nothing I can do. I felt a bit silly getting so upset over fish, but they are my babies. They recommended if I do try to treat them, to get some anti-parasitic medications, so that's what I'm doing. I've cleaned the tank water and I'm soaking metroplex into bloodworms (I didn't get the focus which I suppose I should have, but she didn't point it out to me) as well as using prazipro which she recommended. I know it is ill-advised to mix medications, but the two different medications affect different parasites, so I wanted to cover both bases and time is running short. I know API general cure has both of those ingredients, so I'm hoping it's safe. I read a few people doing this with no problem, so we'll see what happens. MY LFS did not have medicine infused foods.

Unfortunately, the cories were not interested in eating the worms. They ate a few, but did not seem hungry. It was a bit frustrating, but I am going to try again later. Usually I feed them before going to bed and turn off the light, so it was a bit out of their routine. I thought they love blood worms so I am afraid they are getting sicker. My betta ate some of them, but he might be constipated and bloating (could he have parasites too?)...He has been defecating so I am not sure what is wrong. So now I am worrying about even more problems

He has been looking bloated for a while now so I was fasting him off and on, but I suppose I should try treating him with a pea. I am hesitant to use salt because I am already treating the tank with medication for parasites...I would have done something sooner, but I just thought he was getting a little fat. Here is a picture of my betta and the bad spinal curve and sucked in belly of my sick cory. I know my betta looks a little rough, but he has bitten his fins since I got him.

http://i61.tinypic.com/2qa4c40.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/v2zolk.jpg

 

[Delapool]

Really quick since big day.

Skip the aquarium salt. Try peas (Epsom salt would be next suggestion).

I see what you mean on the Cory. Prazi will be fine with metro. Haven't had a chance to look into metro side effects but it's worth a try.

Don't over do bloodworms. I assume they are frozen and irradiated?

 

[Alyssum]

I will try the peas.



I have some good news. I woke up this morning and I have seen a major improvement. At first I refused to believe it, but he has definitely changed. I stood up late last night and waited for them to be hungry to feed the blood worms. The sickest, paralyzed cory was the most eager to eat and I managed to get them fed. I don't know if the prazipro or the metroplex, but something must be working. I wasn't expecting to see this kind of change, at least this soon if at all. He could still die, but to see this is amazing. He is actually pushing himself up with both bottom fins and I saw him surface for air twice, which I have not seen in almost a week. I have a video so you guys can see for yourself:



http://v8.tinypic.com/player.swf?file=6p0q9z&s=8



I am still not sure what to do about my betta, but I'm really hoping I can get this under control. I was worried about all the interference, especially without knowing what is wrong. I am hoping he will keep improving and I am going to try and let nature takes course without so much fidgeting over their tank, probably causing them more stress. I'll keep that in mind about the salt and try something else if my betta does not improve. He ate some of the blood worms because betta are pigs, making him more bloated. I am not going to feed him for a while, it just made him balloon up.


They are frozen blood worms from Hikari. I put it in a plastic baggie and let it sit in the tank water to thaw, then dose one scoop of metroplex into it. I then let it sit for 20 minutes to soak. I wasn't sure how to do it at first so I had to look it up on Seachem's forum.



Thanks for the support. I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[Delapool]

Sounds hopeful news. Fingers crossed!