Pls Help! Sick Betta (internal parasites?)

[Audrey05]

Used API Freshwater Master test kit:
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 10 ppm
pH: 7.6

Tank: 5 gallons, Fluval Spec 5, added air stone, cycled since March 27, 2019, heated. Weekly water changes of about 30%

My fish is a male rose tail betta from Petco, and he is now 2 years old and I have had him for around a year and a half. Ever since I have had him he has struggled with fin rot.

About a month ago, I realized his eyes were bugging out more than usual, so I waited about a week with just changing the water every day about 20%, but after that, he did not seem to be doing better, so I put in some medication. I let him be after dosing the meds was over to wait to see what would happen. Nothing really changed that drastically up to a week ago, I realized that my betta seemed to be constipated with a brown clump and a white stringy poop coming out??? It was really odd, after an hour it was gone so I just assumed that it was just quite the irregular poop. 3 days ago, he started to really be in bad shape his eyes are stilling popping out but now are covered in an opaque lense, he has 2 white spots on his head, and has very often white stringy poop stuck to him (which I think is a symptom of parasites?) all accompanied by his fin rot which has gotten worse.

I would appreciate any help or suggestions anyone has for my betta

 

[Enchantress]

I'm sorry to hear that...but unfortunately the fancier bettas (rosetails, feathertails, even halfmoons) are notoriously prone to getting sick because of the excessive finnage and inbreeding.

Is he showing any other symptoms - lack of appetite, lethargy, flashing, bloating etc.? The only thing I can think of is buying some medicated food (you can buy it, or make it yourself by adding garlic extract or a more targeted antiparasitic like API general cure to food & feeding more roughage in the form of brine shrimp, daphnia etc.), and a broad-spectrum medicine (something that treats both bacteria and fungi) for the fin rot and skin issues. You'll have to look around online or in your lfs, there are plenty of products to choose from depending on where you live. The bilateral popeye makes me think that this may be a water quality issue after all, so just to be on the safe side I would check the water again using another test kit. I'm not aware of any other causes of popeye except physical injury (rough handling, sharp/coarse objects in the tank), but with both eyes it seems more likely to be water quality-related... You can try giving him a bath in Epsom salt (ideally in a separate container) to reduce the swelling, and if that doesn't help then you'll need to buy antibiotics - tetracycline could be effective against both popeye and fin rot. You can also add some Indian Almond Leaves to the tank to help fight bacteria and reduce stress. The cornea is probably damaged so you should treat him asap, as severe popeye can cause permanent blindness and even result in decay of the eyeball. And unfortunately it takes a very long time to heal.


Some pictures would be helpful. In the meantime, you can take a look here - it's quite a helpful site (although I'm not sure the 100% water changes are a good idea, as it could be risky in terms of the nitrogen cycle...so I'd take it with a pinch of salt): https://bettacarecentral.weebly.com/diseases--illness.html#

 

[Audrey05]

Thanks for responding! Some other symptoms include fin clamping with the claudal fin and he moves around, but not as much as he used to.

About for all the medications, when I first saw he had popeye I treated after having tried with a lot of extra water changes that did not seem to reduce the swelling with meds that I put in the water, but medicated food is probably better. Also, something really odd is that I treated him in May with some meds that targeted bacterial and fungal infections, but it did not do much at all, leading me to believe that all of this is caused by a parasitic infection?

For this past week, his aquarium has aquarium salt and almond leaves in it sorry I forgot to mention it in my first post.

So these are the water parameters using a second api liquid test kit:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
ph: 7.6

I will try to post pictures ASAP

 

[Audrey05]

 

[Audrey05]

Its kind of hard to see him unless I shine the light on him as he is a really dark blue

I also forgot to mention that he appears a little skinny (maybe its just me?), even if he eats a decent amount of food

Let me know if more pictures from different angles would be better

 

[Enchantress]

The parametres are pretty much perfect, so that's not it...hm. Normally with an unfiltered nano tank water quality is the first thing that comes to mind, but in your case everything is OK. I must say I'm not sure what the problem is in this case. I'm not aware of any parasites that would cause these symptoms. From what I know fin rot an popeye are usually either bacterial or fungal, not parasitic. White stringy poop also doesn't necessarily have to be because of parasites, it can be the result of a bacterial infection. What medication were you using? Maybe it just wasn't effective...I've had a similar problem where I bought a herbal antiparasitic and it did absolutely nothing other than make the water stink. So maybe it was just the wrong stuff, or maybe it was a bit too weak...? It's possible that the fin rot weakened his immune system and made it more susceptible to the intestinal problems. Prolonged illness would've certainly made him prone to all kinds of secondary infections, and this is already a fish that is genetically weak, so his immune system is really under a lot of stress.

White poop can be caused by several things, like hexamita or "hole in the head disease" (treatable with metronidazole and Epsom salts), a nematode infestation (treatable with Fenbendazole), internal bacterial infections (most often Aeromonas bacteria, treatable with antibiotics), and in some cases it isn't pathological at all. It depends on what symptoms your betta is showing, if he's losing weight etc. You just have to observe him and research his symptoms so that at the very worst you can make an educated guess.

Sorry if it seems like I'm grabbing at straws, but tbh I can't really think of anything at the moment. I'll try to do some more research.

Oh, and Epsom salt is not the same as aquarium salt - it's used to treat swelling and bloating, and it's also recommended for popeye. So for the time being you can try that, along with maybe a different antibiotic (just make sure to dose it according to the instructions) and medicated food.

If you're absolutely sure he has parasites, then praziquantel and metronidazole-based products are effective against most of them (so something like Hikari PraziPro or API general cure). BUT: Don't medicate unless you have a pretty good idea what's wrong with him, as using the wrong medication or mixing different meds could be dangerous.
Sorry I can't be of more help at the moment, but this is hoestly a bit of a head-scratcher...

 

[Audrey05]

I'm so stumped myself, but I will research some more.

When I got him, he had some pin hole finrot, but nothing too bad. I mentioned to the worker at Petco that my fish had a little bit of finrot which was a mistake as they did not want me to leave with him if that was the case and they claimed that they could not sell any fish that wasn't 100% healthy. Luckily, I managed to buy him, but that was close. When I got home I put him in the aquarium and used a herbal medicine called microbe-lift artemiss, which seemed to work, but I did not use it again due to the debate about whether melalecua oil not being safe for labyrinth fish.

So, the medications I have on hand are: microbe-lift artemiss, Furan 2, paraguard, Kanaplex, jungle fungus clear, and I am getting prazipro soon as I ordered it a week ago realizing i do not really have anything for parasites in my kit.

The ones I used lately on my betta are: jungle fungus clear and after a while nothing seemed to get better Kanaplex in conjunction with Furan 2 (I will admit that I did not do the water changes as often as the box recomended I maybe skipped 1 or 2 times, which is my fault I should have been more careful), these meds did not change Prince's condition that much which really surprised me.

Would you recommend an epsom salt bath and removing the aquarium salt? And if yes to the bath how many should I do in a day?

 

[Audrey05]

Also, as a side note I stoped meds because I thought that they were making him worse? Maybe I should keep using one, just let me know what you think

 

[Enchantress]

Also, as a side note I stoped meds because I thought that they were making him worse? Maybe I should keep using one, just let me know what you think

Yes you can stop the meds for some time, it might actually give you a clearer picture of what's wrong with him. But keep a close eye on him and if you notice that he's getting worse without them then it would probably be a good idea to start them back up. And if you use more than 1 medicine at once then make sure they don't interact with each other, as that will just cause more harm than good. It should say on the packaging whether a particular product is safe to use in conjunction with others. Kanaplex and Furan 2 should have helped both with fin rot and popeye, I have honestly no idea why they didn't work... Furan2 kills beneficial bacteria, so it's possible that the tank could've gone through a mini-cycle and stressed the betta even further.

The good thing is that the fins don't look sore or infected, there's nothing growing on them, no bleeding, the edges aren't discoloured etc., so maybe the fin rot is no longer active - have you noticed the fins receding any further, or maybe some new growth in places? Has it gotten much worse recently? And - this has just occurred to me, but are you absolutely sure it's fin rot? His tail seems to be the most damaged (while the anal and ventral fins seem relatively OK), and this could indicate tail biting - some bettas do this and it would explain why it's been going on for so long and hasn't responded to any medication. He could also be snagging his fins against sharp or rough objects in the tank. Sometimes the fins tear on their own due to flaring (especially in the fancy long-finned bettas). Frayed fins don't automatically mean fin rot, so might be worth looking into alternative causes

And how is his appetite? If he's eating a lot but still stays this thin then it could potentially indicate internal parasites. But for the time being my money is on a bacterial infection.

Epsom salt dips can be given several times a day - how often will depend on how your betta reacts. To be safe, I'd start with once a day and if he tolerates it well then increase the frequency until you start seeing improvement. Here are some instructions on how to do salt dips (both in aquarium salt and Epsom salt): Salt Baths - Betta Splendid

 

[Audrey05]

Thanks for the replies it is really helpful!

Ok so um for his fins he was doing fine and regrowing them from a bout of fin rot (I think, though as you mentioned it could be tail biting ie) and in April he was doing really well. Then in May is when it restarted a little along with the popeye which led to me putting meds and then it getting progressively worse. After the Furan and Kanaplex did nothing I was at a loss, but maybe not following exactly what they said about doing water changes daily and me skipping a few water changes messed it up? I have seen bits of his fin seen to be shrinking around a small piece on the bottom of his caudal fin, I don't know if that makes any sense in writing though. I agree in this case it appears that it could be tail biting or else apart from fin rot, but when he has had previous cases like this is has also affected his dorsal fin and anal fin (luckily they have regrown)

Oh and as a side note I have never put the light on really in my aquarium as it always seemed to stress him out, this probably is not the cause of it but do you think that is bad? (But the room he is in is lighted with sunlight from the morning to the afternoon and his aquarium is against the wall opposite the window and there is no direct sunlight going into the aquarium)

For his eating, he eats quite a bit. For example today I fed him frozen bloodworms this morning and he had like 5 or 6. Lately, he has been missing his pellets a little bit more but I imagined that was because of his eyes.

Do you also find him thin from the pics?

I will put him in an epsom salt bath tonight hopefully or at the worst tomorrow morning

Please let me know if pictures from different angles would help

 

[Enchantress]

Oh and as a side note I have never put the light on really in my aquarium as it always seemed to stress him out, this probably is not the cause of it but do you think that is bad? (But the room he is in is lighted with sunlight from the morning to the afternoon and his aquarium is against the wall opposite the window and there is no direct sunlight going into the aquarium)

For his eating, he eats quite a bit. For example today I fed him frozen bloodworms this morning and he had like 5 or 6. Lately, he has been missing his pellets a little bit more but I imagined that was because of his eyes.

Do you also find him thin from the pics?

Please let me know if pictures from different angles would help

Leaving the lights off is not a problem, as long as there's enough light for him to be able to tell the difference between night & day. Bettas need 8-12h of light and 12-16h of dark, as long as they have that it doesn't really matter where the light comes from. Intense bright light can cause stress, and most fish don't like it, so it's probably better that you turned it off. If possible, you can also try changing the light fixture to something dimmer so that you still have a lit aquarium without stressing the fish out. Or you can add floating plants like frogbit etc. to diffuse the light. Lots of options out there for a low-light tank


He does look a little thin in the photos, the stomach shouldn't be flat or concave, especially if he's eating well. If he's lost weight even though he eats the same as always then that's definitely a sign of a problem. You can try getting some more pictures, especially of the eyes and belly, but don't worry if you can't

 

[Audrey05]

I will give me a few minutes!

 

[Audrey05]

poor guy! Didn't want to wake up

One thing to mention is the weird white spots on his head? I have no idea what they are whether it is fungus or parasitic?

 

[Enchantress]

The eyes don't appear that bad...The Epsom salt should help bring down the swelling (but again, go slow). The white spots could just be missing scales that he may have scraped off against something... but if it looks fuzzy or cottony it could be due to a fungal infection or Columnaris. Keep an eye on it for the time being & don't medicate unless you know what it is.

 

[Audrey05]

Ok, knowing that the eyes are not really bad helps, about the spots it was weird because there was only one at the beginning of the week and now there is 3? which is odd, but I will keep watch

Thanks again for bearing with me
I'll update about the salt dip tomorrow