Possible Columnaris?? HELP!!!!!

[Kimlafeiet]

I have 4 boesmani rainbows in my 55 gallon community. I just noticed that 2 of them have what appears to be swollen, white top lips. The third one has a tiny white lump on its top lip, more like a pimple. The 4th one looks fine.

I purchased these guys from a reputable breeder, and qt'd them for 10 days before adding to my show tank. They have been in the show tank close to 2 weeks now. No other fish show any signs of this.

Tank is well established, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate reads between 5 and 10. I do a 50% water change once a week (sundays) with prime and only feed every other day.

I am attaching a couple pics, sorry they arent the best, but these guys dont hold still. Any ideas what this could be, and if it IS columnaris, what is the best treatment? I am so freaked out I am going to loose all my fish

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Here are a couple pics

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Have they been locking lips with each other?

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Not that I have seen. They are in a 4ft long tank, and I have not seen them bump into the glass either.
Should I take them out and put them back into the QT tank?

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Update:
I moved the 3 of them to a QT tank, treated with MelaFix and PimaFix last night. This morning they look about the same.
After doing some research online, It looks like I should treat with Maracyn 2 if this is indeed columnars, but I am not convinced it is yet. Also, my tap water is naturally hard, gh is pretty high, which could render the Maracyn 2 much less effective.
I have some API jungle fungus cure, so I think I am going to try treatment with that first to see if perhaps its just a mild case of fungus or mouth rot......

The show tank looks good, did my water change early last night, and did a 60% change, pulled out all the decorations and did a thorough gravel vac, just in case. Everyone looks fine this morning, no one shows any signs of illness.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Another update, things look like they are getting worse. One of the rainbows looks like the white is spreading to his bottom lip, and now his tail has white on the top egdes. I cant tell if the tail is rotting, or if its a fungus on it, he wont hold still long enough to get a good look. He also seems lethargic, and is hiding in the back bottom corner of the tank. The other two seem no different than yesterday. What could this be? Began treatment this morning with jungle fungus clear and maracyn 2.

I am totally panicking now. I just triple checked my show tank again, and everyone seems fine, ate well. All levels good (am 0, trite 0, trate 5).

 

[mfdrookie516]

I'd think that if it were columnaris, it would spread to the other fish... but I suppose there's a chance it won't. Best advice I have is to drop the temp 6 degrees and put about half the recommended dossage of salt in, along with 50% changes every day. I'd probably drop the temp in the other tank just as a precaution for a couple weeks. Worked for me once when I had a few fish with it. I did the pimafix/melafix treatment too, but I really think that all it did was make the water smell good.

 

[Berylla]

Another update, things look like they are getting worse. One of the rainbows looks like the white is spreading to his bottom lip, and now his tail has white on the top egdes. I cant tell if the tail is rotting, or if its a fungus on it, he wont hold still long enough to get a good look. He also seems lethargic, and is hiding in the back bottom corner of the tank. The other two seem no different than yesterday. What could this be? Began treatment this morning with jungle fungus clear and maracyn 2.

I am totally panicking now. I just triple checked my show tank again, and everyone seems fine, ate well. All levels good (am 0, trite 0, trate 5).

Columnaris is cottony that eats into the skin to produce ulcers. Fungus is fine stringy that can ball up and sit on top of the skin.

From the sounds of it, its columnaris. Kanaplex is the best treatment for columnaris. However, there is a non-medicated way to treat that I've used before - potassium permanganate bath.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Thanks, I am treating the show tank with melafix and pimafix and watching very closely....just in case.
Where would I find potassium permanganate, and how do I bath/dip them? I have never dealt with anything other than a mild case of ich before. :-(

 

[Berylla]

In my blog about QT process, skip to the bottom about PP treatment. There's a link to Jehmco.com to buy Jungle's Pond Oxy Clear, which is pure PP in dry powder form; but you can also get it in liquid form at Walmart pet's section:

Jungle: For Established Aquariums Clear Water, 2 Fl Oz: Marketplace : Walmart.com

If you have any questions, please post here. I can walk you through the treatment.

 

[Berylla]

If you get the Walmart stuff, get at least 2 bottles.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Ok, I picked up 2 bottles of it at Walmart, and a new 5 gallon bucket, and am headed home from work shortly to "bathe" them. How do I do this bath and how long do I leave them in it? Can I do all 3 at once, or should I dip them each seperately?
I was cautiously optimistic this moring, I was not sure the worst one would make it though the night last night, but he was actually more active and looked no worse this morning. Not looking any better physically, but not any worse
Main tank still looks ok, nothing new to note there (thank god)....but probably still to early to cheer.......
Thank you so much for your help

 

[Berylla]

I would PP them all together. It's a four hour treatment, so you need an airstone, airpump and heater and you need to monitor them very closely to keep up the color of the water to that light pink. If you are using a 5G bucket you will redose very little since it's free of the high organics of a main tank.

REMEMBER to use dechlorinated water. Mix the PP before putting fish in to get the right color. Add a drop at a time, and use an old spoon to mix, step back, look at the color, then add more drops. Have ready 3x dose of safe mixed with a cup of water to stop the process should it be necessary.

After the 4 hours, do a massive water change, using dechlor water, and keep them in the bucket for observation overnight. The next morning do a 75-100% water change, keeping them in the bucket, or if they are looking much better, put them into a water changed main tank. Add salt to the main tank too at 1tbs/10 gallons but only if you don't have plants and snails.

Keep up with the daily water changes in the main tank of 50% at least to keep the tank really clean. Vacuum substrate. If they are still showing signs of bacteria, do another PP treatment 2 days later.

 

[Berylla]

Also, review my video on my blog to give you a refresher before doing any mixing. Good luck! I will be looking for your updates tonight!

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Ok.....sorry for the delay in update. I decided to wait until today to do the treatment, as I was not in the office, so I could monitor them more closely today.
Did the treatment, made the water light pink, but I only left them in it for 3 hours, as they started to act more stressed and frantic in the 3rd hour. Did an immediate 75% water change with prime, and then another 75% water change about 2 hours later. Also did about a 90% water change in thier qt tank to get all the jungle fungus and maracyn meds out. I moved them back into the qt tank about an hour ago. They seem ok, stressed, but no worse for the wear. Hopefully they survive the night. I swear, if they make it through all this, I will be surprised if they dont come down with ich from all the stress.

So, if this bath helps, wen should I start to see improvements? Also, should I add any salt to thier qt tank? I dont want to use any more meds on them if I can avoid it, as they have been through so much now already. Just daily pwc's, and maybe melafix/pimafix if you think that would be ok.

 

[Berylla]

Ok.....sorry for the delay in update. I decided to wait until today to do the treatment, as I was not in the office, so I could monitor them more closely today.
Did the treatment, made the water light pink, but I only left them in it for 3 hours, as they started to act more stressed and frantic in the 3rd hour. Did an immediate 75% water change with prime, and then another 75% water change about 2 hours later. Also did about a 90% water change in thier qt tank to get all the jungle fungus and maracyn meds out. I moved them back into the qt tank about an hour ago. They seem ok, stressed, but no worse for the wear. Hopefully they survive the night. I swear, if they make it through all this, I will be surprised if they dont come down with ich from all the stress.

So, if this bath helps, wen should I start to see improvements? Also, should I add any salt to thier qt tank? I dont want to use any more meds on them if I can avoid it, as they have been through so much now already. Just daily pwc's, and maybe melafix/pimafix if you think that would be ok.

Glad they made it through!! They should not have been "stressed" if they had enough oxygen. Salt at 1tbs/10 gallons won't hurt them. Melafix and Primafix would not be good here since their slime coat is building back. In fact, I would only use in a main tank after a massive water change. I just used some today as my discus has a scratch on his nose from fighting. It's good for that sort of thing.

If you can, keep them in the QT at least for a day. Their surface infections should be clearing up now. When you move them back to the main tank, do a good cleaning of the main tank, water change, wipe down the sides, clean filter (squeeze filter media in tank water, wipe down sides of filter) and vacuum.

Please post an updated photo.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Thank you, I did have an airstone in there, but maybe it just wasnt enough, or maybe they just having a little spaz session and I panicked, lol. Ive never had rainbows before and they are a different personality than Im used to......
I will add the salt in the morning and skip the melafix/pimafix. I plan on keeping them in the QT another week, just to be safe. The main tank still seems fine, did a large water change, cleaned the tank and decor, major gravel vaccume.....no one seems to be showing any symptoms as to what the rainbows have. {crossing fingers it stays this way}

 

[Berylla]

Kimlafeiet - Looks like things are going as planned. Please keep us posted.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Quick update..........Rainbows are all alive and I think they look a little better (yay!)
Main tank still good........hopefully things keep going in this direction.
Berylla, thank you so much for all of your help, you have been a godsend to me this week.

 

[Berylla]

So happy for you!!! Just keep up with the water changes in the QT. Looking forward to updated photos of your fish in your main tank.