Problem with Angel fish

[chval]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? In addition, please describe what is wrong with the fish to the best of your ability (i.e. cotton like growth, bloated, etc.). Angelfish – having a problem swimming. May swim proper for awhile but then sinks to bottom for awhile, etc. We lost the first one last night. So far this one isn’t quite as bad. Before the one died last night, we noticed that they were all at the surface breathing. Moved the air stone from the 55 over to the 10 and started a little air circulating. After that the other three moved from the surface and were swimming around normally. This morning the second one was on the ground underneath a fake plant, got him out and he swam for awhile and then went and rested on the heater suction cup. One of the other fish started picking on him so I moved him to a breeder net cage. Now he swims somewhat normally but does seem to have to rest on the bottom or side at times. Also sometimes lays flat at surface or at bottom. There are no spots or fungus that I can see on neither this one nor the one that died (I looked at him closely before I disposed). If he or they require treatment the only place that will be open is Walmart and they don’t have much.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Please give exact values.
API Master Test Kit
Ammonia - 2.0 – 4.0
Nitrites – 0
Nitrates - 0
Temp – 80
PH – 7.8

SeaChem Ammonia kit
Free Ammonia (NH3) - 0
Ionized Ammonia (NH4+) – 2.0 – 4.0

Test of water source:
Ammonia – 1.0
PH – 8.8

The reason for the two tests is I am putting AmmoLock in my tank because of the ammonia(and a not cycled tank, see below) and according to the instructions your tank will still test positive for ammonia. But the SeaChem test separates the two types of ammonia. So even thought my total ammonia test high, the Free Ammonia (bad) is zero. So my problems shouldn’t be because of ammonia.

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up? 10 gal, 10 days.

4~What type of filtration are you using? Please give the name and number (i.e. Fluval 304) and amount of gph if known. Aqua-Tech that came with 10 gal kit. Don’t know the model number – it doesn’t say.

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes? Now there are 3 angelfish and 2 panda corys started with 4 & 4.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? How often do you do this? How much water do you remove at a time? Saturday, I did about a 50% water change, Thursday a 25%. As a rule I usually do a 25% change once a week on my established tank. So far I haven’t vac’d the gravel.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them? I have had these fish (4 angels & 4 pandas) since August 22. My original intent was to put them in my cycled 55 gal but before these came I purchased some Phantom Tetras from my lfs and ended up with ich in my main tank which I treated with heat and salt (still ended up losing all of the new tetras). I didn’t figure it was a good idea to put my new angels & cats in a high temperature salted tank, so I went out and bought a 10 gal system at Walmart. Set it up on the 21st and the new fish from LiveAquaria arrived on the afternoon of the 22nd. Upon the recommendation of other board member on this site or another, even thought it might expose the new fish to ich, I was to put some media from my cycled tank into the new tank to help it cycle. Then after the fish had acclimated to my tank, I was to treat it for ich also. Which I have done.

To acclimate to my tank as per LiveAquaria’s instructions, I floated the bag for 15 minutes then I added ½ cup of water every 4 minutes until bag was full, dumped out half and refilled then netted the fish and put in tank.


8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.? Everything in this tank is new except for the nylon bag of gravel from my 55. There is gravel, 3 fakes plants, 3 live Anacharis bunches (read somewhere that they might help get rid of ammonia), 2 small pieces of driftwood. I use API’s Stress Coat, Stress Zyme and AmmoLock.

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently? Omega One First Flake, Hikari Cichilid & Ocean Nutrition Brine Shrimp Plus. The last one I just got last Thursday and they seem to love it! Oh, and I had also bought some Hikari Tropical Sinking Wafers for the cats to have something to nibble on.

I hope this give someone enough information to give me some much needed advice

Thanks,
Connie

 

[TCTFish]

A few notes...

Please keep in mind that Ammo-lock is a temporary fix for a short period of time. The bottle even says to do a water change after two or three applications. Reason being, it only seals the ammonia molecule and then unseals it, releasing the toxicity back into the water. IME, it is much better to use a bio suppliment, this way the ammonia is broken down rather than just temporarily sealed.

pH is way too high for Angels. Also when pH is high with readings of ammonia it makes the ammonia more toxic. Ammonium (NH4+) may be less toxic than NH3 (ammonia), but there's still a level of toxicity and angels are delicate fish. Peat moss will help lower the pH naturally without adding chemicals. You only need a little bit for a ten gallon tank. Test the pH often to make sure it doesn't go too far down (6.5 at the lowest...7.0 is what's preferred). Peat moss is also something you can use to soften the water from your water source prior to adding the water into the tanks.

Now that you have a small tank, convert it into a QT. IME, the QT is best left as empty as possible...no gravel and decor should be non porous...meaning no fabric plants or live plants...plastic only. Use a non porous item to use as a cave or hide out. The filter you have is fine and a simple heater kept at 78 degrees.

What I would suggest for the ten gallon and in order...

Take out the gravel, put in new water with buffered pH, dose the tank with a bio suppliment (nitroMax, cycle, Bacter Plus, etc)...double the dose for the first application and re acclimate the fish to the tank. They can hang in a bucket with an airstone for the time it takes to do this (with the tank water you take out from the ten gallon).

Do 25% water change every other day or every two days until they can go into the main tank. You could also put in half a dose of stress coat into the ten too. Stress coat will help prevent the loss of electrolytes. Feed very sparingly...two minutes worth of food per day, every other day, split into two or more feeds...the more the better. So two minutes divided by two feeds, you would feed one minute worth of food twice a day every other day. If divided into four feeds, it would be 30 seconds worth of food four times a day every other day.

What is the status of the 55 gallon?

 

[chval]

The 55 is doing OK. Should I move the remaing 2 Angels & 2 cats into that cycled tank?

Connie

 

[TCTFish]

It would be helpful to know the water parameters of the 55 to compare to the ten gallon you have listed.

The cats may be OK to put in, but you might want to wait on the angels. Use about five gallons of water from the 55 in the ten...again...no gravel. The rest can be conditioned from your source...remember to buffer the pH before the fish are exposed to it. If the angels go without showing any signs of illness in another week and the water parameters are clean in the 55 (nitrates below 30 ppm), then slowly acclimate them to the main tank.

They've been under stress, so keeping them out of the main tank until that stress has passed is best to avoid another mishap with the 55...which is the very reason for QTs in the first place (to protect the population

 

[chval]

Where does one get peat moss? Is there a special one for fish? What do you do with it - put it in your filter?

I also take it that there would be no more using the python to refil the tank. Would have to used a bucket of aged ph adjusted water?

 

[TCTFish]

Fluval has peat moss as a filter media. I recommend the shredded over granular. If you can fit some in the filter, great...if not...you can use a separate filter bag and hang it over the edge of the tank under the filter's water flow.

You can also get regular peat moss from any reptile shop.

If your tap water is that high in pH and showing ammonia...and you have anything else except African cichlids, then pre-conditioned water from the bucket is best rather than straight from the tap.

The tap water where I'm at is high in pH too, so I can sympathize. Not much more you can do other than perhaps get a RO unti for your tap water. It'd be healthy for you too. For the tanks, all you'd need to do is actually put some minerals back in the water according to the type of fish you have. they'll have clean water to breathe and you'll have clean water to drink.

It's a thought and there are small and affordable RO units available.