Problems on Goldfish Street

[The_Desacrator]

OK guys my goldfish are having issues.
Curent stats of tank:
Size -37 Gallons
Stock - 4 Cory Cats, 3 Ryukin Goldfish(2 very large, one medium/small)
Regular Cleaning - I try to do it every 2-3 weeks, usually 50% water changes.
Also a piece of driftwood is in there. Can post photos if needed.

Products I Use:
API Freshwater Salt
Topfin Bacterial Supplement
Kordon Novaqua Plus Water Conditioner

2 of my babies, the bigger goldfish, have developed swim bladder disease. One developed it a while back. I came here and I was told by you guys and the person at Petsmart to try feeding them Seaweed and frozen green peas. I did the seaweed like every day for about 2 weeks with no change in the sick goldfish's swimming pattern. I went back to Petsmart to pick up the usual stuff (conditioner and stuff) and reported that another guy had the disease. She said instead to peel the peas and feed them non frozen. I started that today. Any other tips you guys got?


Also I changed the water like two days ago, and using the API kit the water was like 40ppm or more of nitrate(ammonia and nitrites were 0). I just did a water change today and it was back up, possibly worse than it was two days ago. I use tap water that comes out of the bathroom sink(dunno if this matters). I don't know what to do. please help.

 

[Cactuspixie]

OK guys my goldfish are having issues.
Curent stats of tank:
Size -37 Gallons
Stock - 4 Cory Cats, 3 Ryukin Goldfish(2 very large, one medium/small)
Regular Cleaning - I try to do it every 2-3 weeks, usually 50% water changes.
Also a piece of driftwood is in there. Can post photos if needed.

Products I Use:
API Freshwater Salt
Topfin Bacterial Supplement
Kordon Novaqua Plus Water Conditioner

2 of my babies, the bigger goldfish, have developed swim bladder disease. One developed it a while back. I came here and I was told by you guys and the person at Petsmart to try feeding them Seaweed and frozen green peas. I did the seaweed like every day for about 2 weeks with no change in the sick goldfish's swimming pattern. I went back to Petsmart to pick up the usual stuff (conditioner and stuff) and reported that another guy had the disease. She said instead to peel the peas and feed them non frozen. I started that today. Any other tips you guys got?

Also I changed the water like two days ago, and using the API kit the water was like 40ppm or more of nitrate(ammonia and nitrites were 0). I just did a water change today and it was back up, possibly worse than it was two days ago. I use tap water that comes out of the bathroom sink(dunno if this matters). I don't know what to do. please help.

The peas should always be given thawed and shelled.
I believe your problems stem from having an overstocked tank. That's a massive bioload, and to be doing so few water changes you are luck not to have suffered losses thus far.

If it were me, I'd do daily water changes until you can get a 50gal tank or so.
How much filtration are you running? I believe that filtration rated for 10x the tank volume per hour is recommended for goldfish. I have that for my comet, but also do pwc every 2 days because he's only in a 74 gal tank with a pleco (a double no-no, I know)
What sort of cories do you have? They are usually more sensitive than goldfish, and don't always do well with salt in their water.
I have read horror stories where goldfish died from having a Cory cat stuck in their throat :-(
Doesn't mean it will happen (but anything that's possible will happen to ME)

 

[jlk]

Can you please post your exact parameters, including ph? If you know your gh and kh this will help as well. How much salt are you adding and why are you using it? How long have you been adding salt (entire time you have had them or just recently)? What is their normal diet? Can you please provide any/all symptoms (red streaks, spots, lifted scales, gasping, heavy/rapid breathing, bloating, strange waste, etc)?

Based on what little info that has been provided, the issue is likely a combo of poor water quality/lack of sufficient big wcs, salt use and dietary issues. More info will help us to help you better!

 

[The_Desacrator]

OK here we go

Overstocking - Back in the day I read online that the first goldfish u have needs 20 gallons and every goldfish after the first needs an additional 10. I figured 37/40 should be fine.

Filtration - I use two Marineland Bio-Wheel Power Filter Penguin 200

Cory Cats - I believe they are pepper corry cats.

Salt - I ready online that salt should be added to stop nitrite from burning the fish's gills. I have used it for as long as I could remember.

Diet - Omega One medium size goldfish pellets

Symptoms - I havent noticed anything odd other than the floating/swimming issues.

ill post the ph and stuff tomorrow. really tired.

 

[The_Desacrator]

OK:
ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - around 40ish
ph - 7.6
ph high - 7.8

Im using the API Freshwater Master Kit

How often should I feed them peas?

Also doing a water change right now.

 

[The_Desacrator]

I also feed them blood worms. they used to have other tankmates that needed them but now it just came to me that i dont need to feed them bloodworms anymore right?

 

[Cactuspixie]

I also feed them blood worms. they used to have other tankmates that needed them but now it just came to me that i dont need to feed them bloodworms anymore right?

The cories will enjoy the bloodworms. They are supposed to be good for fancy goldfish, but that could get expensive!

 

[The_Desacrator]

OK thanks. =)

 

[jlk]

Thanks for your numbers! I would suggest a few things here. First, start by doing some big wcs to drop your nitrates down to 10ppm (preferably under 5ppm). Then stay on top of your big wcs (50-75%) to keep your nitrates as low as possible. With your current stock, this will likely mean wcs atleast 2-3x a week. Nitrates will induce buoyancy issues in fancies and 40+ppm is quite high.

Also, stop adding the salt immediately! Salt use has likely resulted in internal damage that is further aggravating the situation. Salt in low doses does help protect fish from nitrite poisoning when used prior to a nitrite spike (will have zero affect if added after nitrite starts to spike). Fancies can tolerate salt for short duration (such as for ich treatment), however, they are stenohaline fish. This means they have a VERY limited salinity tolerance and will suffer internal damage (and eventual demise) if kept in it longterm.

Bloodworms (fresh/frozen- do not feed dried ones) are fine to feed. I honestly would suggest switching them to a gelffood diet along with daily veggies. Gelfoods and veggies have had the most success in addressing mild buoyancy issues in fancies when water quality is kept pristine and parasite issues (flukes) have been ruled out.

 

[The_Desacrator]

OK thanks for the respone.

Ill starting doing water changes like 2-3 a week.

Ill start feeding them daily veggies tomorrow.

I only used salt cause some website recommended it as did the packaging on the salt box. Should I stop using salt in my other tanks(tropical freshwater)?I don't know if u know the answer to this but should i stop putting salt in my turtle tank? he was in the same tank as the goldies for a while so i figured i would try to keep the tank conditions the same. Im sorry if its a stupid question. =(

edit: turns out salt is ok, but not needed. will probably stop with the salt

 

[jlk]

I am only advising on the goldies as they are my area of experience. Whether salt is of any added benefit to a tropical tank is a topic of hot debate. Some swear by it while science rules in favor of not using salt with freshwater fish (they are fw after all!). There are a few species that are euryhaline (tolerant and adaptable to a variety salinities) such as mollies but this is more of an exception rather than the norm. Also realize that freshwater already has a natural salinity to it depending on the region where you reside. Heres some more info on salt use:

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/is-aquarium-salt-needed-227851.html

Salt | The Skeptical Aquarist

 

[Coursair]

The other issue with salt is that it doesn't evaporate. So if you add it constantly with each water change your salinity will keep rising.

I had a customer with a 14 year old Fancy. His fish has a 75g ideal set up. Only fish, his 16yo Fancy had just passed away. The ONLY thing I found an issue with was Salt. We stopped the salt, did large WCs and fed more Veggies and last I heard his Goldie was recovered and still swimming.