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Old 11-13-2014, 03:56 PM   #1
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Random fish death

So I'll start by saying I've recently been battling columnaris in one if my large display tanks, and this is a separate tank with different issues (in case you've responded to another thread!)

My OTHER large display, a 90 gallon is doing just fine, except that from time to time over the course of many, many weeks, a fish will start to lose color, continue eating (yet not gain weight), then separate himself from the rest and die. On the day or two before his death, his tail will look very ragged. This whole process could take weeks - definitely more than a month. It started with the red glass barbs. I had 6 a year ago and every so often I'll lose one due to the symptoms above. I lost a GBR to the same thing as well. One of the two red glass barbs I have left started losing color (step one to whatever this is). Parasites? Fish TB? Can fish become diabetic?? I'm at a loss for this random thing that only happens occasionally. I've thought about just treating the whole tank for parasites with prazipro (heard it's more mild?) or maybe even Pima/melafix since it's more natural...just as a boost more than anything....I'd sure appreciate your thoughts!!

Amm-0
Nitrite-0
Nitrate-20
Temp 78
PWC 40% weekly
I don't test hardness regularly, but it's up there...


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Old 11-15-2014, 12:34 PM   #2
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Im really not sure, those are wierd symptoms. Sounds like it could be Aeromonas or Psuedomonas bacterial infections if it dosent kill within a week its not columnaris. Try reading up on those two, google it. That is my best guess.
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Old 11-15-2014, 12:53 PM   #3
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Thanks for the response! I'm looking up some of those infections now. Both mention lesions, pop-eye, distended abdomens, but I've never experienced those symptoms. (Could be they are just not showing those?)

I'm at a loss, but I'll try to take a pic of him later....maybe that will help.


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Old 11-15-2014, 01:16 PM   #4
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Okay, im at a loss too. A picture or video would help alot to figure this out and try to get this under control and out of your tanks.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:53 AM   #5
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I'll try an snap some tonight with my camera. The one on the phone does no good...lol

I am wrong in thinking it could be an internal parasite that is taking time jumping fish to fish maybe? I frequently think about adding some Prazipro because it seems fairly mild and says you can use it as a "preventative"...??


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Old 11-20-2014, 02:55 AM   #6
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How hard is your water?


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Old 11-20-2014, 03:40 AM   #7
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Honestly, I couldn't tell you an exact number right now. I should test for it (I know)...

Sometimes if I am going out anyway, I'll just have the lfs test my water. When they do, it's always "normal/moderate". I just looked up the city's water report, and KH was measured at 95.5 on average here (measured in CACO3) which I believe is the kH. That number appears to be not as hard as I thought, but since my ph is always always 7.4 that leads me to think that I actually do have fairly hard water😕

While looking numbers up, I read that kH and gH have an important role in fish osmoregulation and their ability to take in nutrients. Could that causes my fishes' symptoms if it's out of whack?


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Old 11-25-2014, 10:09 AM   #8
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Another fish down. Seems to be happening to the red glass barbs mostly. I have a pretty densely planted tank, so by the time I found him, his middle was gone....


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Old 11-27-2014, 07:59 PM   #9
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Does it look like it burst open?
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:41 AM   #10
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No I think I didn't catch it in time and something ate it :-/

On that note, another red glass barb. I have a pic this time...poor guy

He lost color over a couple weeks, and then found him dead today. Fins ragged like that happened yesterday. He is a "glass" fish, so being see through is normal. But he used to be very very red....

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Old 11-28-2014, 08:12 AM   #11
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Fish often lose colour after death. That's common.
Could be a subordinate conspecific?

Are cherry barbs like tiger barbs? You need lots of tigers to distribute aggression away from the lowest member of the school. Maybe it's the weakest fish getting hounded to death each time? Could explain the ragged tail, nipped by shoal mates.

Now one has died watch the fish closely, you should see a lot of other shoal squabbling as they re shuffle for order and re establish a new hierarchy.

It's a long shot guess here but maybe you need to add as many barbs as you can.

The only other thing it could be, a fish that eats but gains no weight has worms, these are capable of growing until they literally burst free (that's why I asked about the condition of the dead fish)

Those are your choices I think, treat for worms or add LOTS more cherry barbs to break up aggression, also make sure there are plenty of hiding spaces and lots of decor to break up line of sight.

Option 3, incorrect water parameters for the fish species (this is a long shot but probably the easiest thing to check for)
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Mcpeak View Post
Fish often lose colour after death. That's common.
Could be a subordinate conspecific?

Are cherry barbs like tiger barbs? You need lots of tigers to distribute aggression away from the lowest member of the school. Maybe it's the weakest fish getting hounded to death each time? Could explain the ragged tail, nipped by shoal mates.

Now one has died watch the fish closely, you should see a lot of other shoal squabbling as they re shuffle for order and re establish a new hierarchy.

It's a long shot guess here but maybe you need to add as many barbs as you can.

The only other thing it could be, a fish that eats but gains no weight has worms, these are capable of growing until they literally burst free (that's why I asked about the condition of the dead fish)

Those are your choices I think, treat for worms or add LOTS more cherry barbs to break up aggression, also make sure there are plenty of hiding spaces and lots of decor to break up line of sight.

Option 3, incorrect water parameters for the fish species (this is a long shot but probably the easiest thing to check for)

He was the last of his school, a red glass barb (relative to the rosy barb) and not at all like the tigers. They're very peaceful.

Also, the posts above the last one explain that the group of fish would first start to lose color, still eat, lose weight, and then the day before his death his fins would become ragged (nobody was picking on them, and this happened to all 6 fish over MONTHS, one at a time.)

I would think columnaris, but nobody else in the tank experiences it and the time frame doesn't match up. I've never had a fish with TB, but could possibly be that? What they call wasting disease? Or internal parasites? Well I'm going to keep an eye on the rest, but there are no more of that species in the tank now.

Another thought- glass barbs are a mutation I think...could it be maybe a side effect of the mutation/bad genes?? I would think so, but how likely it is, I dunno :-/


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Old 11-28-2014, 05:10 PM   #13
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(Hey I'm only trying to help!)

That rules out option one, not aggression.
Option 2, worms. Could be a disease but it seems unlikely as it is only affecting one species, but it is possible. Eating with no weight gain is most likely gut parasites.
Option 3, water quality/parameters. Is your water suitable for the fish?
Is your cleaning schedule up to speed? (I'm only asking)

Temperature too high?
PH?
Hardness?
Water volume? (No info on this tank volume, other tank is 90g)

Is there adequate aeration and surface agitation? Both must be increased with rising temperature, especially for temperate species.

It is quite usual for a bullied fish to go off colour so forgive me for using an obvious signal. I have no experience with these fish so I also made a behavioural assumption.

It's unfortunate you lost your last specimen. At least try and figure out what the cause was, it could be useful for the future.

Probably not wasting disease, you have far too much fish carcass.
Severely emaciated/gaunt sums up wasting disease.

Glass barbs are many in number do you have a proper name for the fish?
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Old 11-28-2014, 05:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Mcpeak View Post
(Hey I'm only trying to help!)

That rules out option one, not aggression.
Option 2, worms. Could be a disease but it seems unlikely as it is only affecting one species, but it is possible. Eating with no weight gain is most likely gut parasites.
Option 3, water quality/parameters. Is your water suitable for the fish?
Is your cleaning schedule up to speed? (I'm only asking)

Temperature too high?
PH?
Hardness?
Water volume? (No info on this tank volume, other tank is 90g)

Is there adequate aeration and surface agitation? Both must be increased with rising temperature, especially for temperate species.

It is quite usual for a bullied fish to go off colour so forgive me for using an obvious signal. I have no experience with these fish so I also made a behavioural assumption.

It's unfortunate you lost your last specimen. At least try and figure out what the cause was, it could be useful for the future.

Probably not wasting disease, you have far too much fish carcass.
Severely emaciated/gaunt sums up wasting disease.

Glass barbs are many in number do you have a proper name for the fish?

Sorry don't mean to sound harsh. It's hard to convey feeling/intent in writing so quickly

It's actually 87 gallons- 63" x 14" x 21" . I use a canister filter spray bar right at the top of the water, moderately/boarder line heavily planted. Ph 7.4 amm 0, nitrite 0, nitrate hovers around 20-30. Temp 78. I don't know hardness (it's hard but not too hard, exact number idk, occasionally the lfs tells me that if I run out of liquid and get it tested there) , but phosphates are 0.5. PWC weekly.

I've been considering worms for a while, but haven't seen evidence of them, except the random fish dying. Thinking of dosing Prazipro to just be sure? Maybe a half dose...I've got eels and pictus in that tank that are probably sensitive to meds. But they're the only thing I could think of?


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Old 11-28-2014, 07:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartgirl View Post
Sorry don't mean to sound harsh. It's hard to convey feeling/intent in writing so quickly

It's actually 87 gallons- 63" x 14" x 21" . I use a canister filter spray bar right at the top of the water, moderately/boarder line heavily planted. Ph 7.4 amm 0, nitrite 0, nitrate hovers around 20-30. Temp 78. I don't know hardness (it's hard but not too hard, exact number idk, occasionally the lfs tells me that if I run out of liquid and get it tested there) , but phosphates are 0.5. PWC weekly.

I've been considering worms for a while, but haven't seen evidence of them, except the random fish dying. Thinking of dosing Prazipro to just be sure? Maybe a half dose...I've got eels and pictus in that tank that are probably sensitive to meds. But they're the only thing I could think of?

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You have the right to get harsh, dying fish is not pleasant especially when it is out of your control. Maybe I read you wrong?
Besides I get "agitated" from time to time. Don't dwell on it because I'm not!

You have a fair to considerable amount of water for the fish, some (especially wild caught) fish really are unaccustomed to nitrate, I'm talking 0-5, with 5 mg/l being max.
It's not a particularly high reading though, but it's high for some.
(no war! Just saying)

The only way to check for worms is to get out the scalpel. Normally they live within the body cavity or digestive tract there are external varieties but they are different.
Really you won't see evidence unless in severe cases where the worm grows to such a size and bursts free from the body cavity and again that is only one or two species.


You'd need to check with eels and meds, pictus should be fine.
(From here it's hard to help using common names, try getting the Latin for things you keep, at least I can use my references to get some basic info, glass barbs are not just one fish, you could have perfect water but it could be just north of acceptable depending on which glass barb you have exactly, pictus is pictus but there are several freshwater eels)
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Old 11-28-2014, 07:18 PM   #16
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Rosy Barbs (Puntius conchonius) are what they are really. "Red glass rosy barbs" are just a mutation in their color variation that makes them see through. My specific eels are half banded spiny eels, the smaller version of tire track and fire eels. Macroganthus circumcinctus is their name.

Nitrates never really get below 20. No amount of changing water really helps, but it's good for the plants I suppose, since they need it in their nutrients

In the mean time, I'm keeping a close eye on the rest of the fish. Hopefully no more death to come!


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Old 12-10-2014, 10:19 PM   #17
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Well...all the glass varieties of the rosy barbs are gone. I have 2 regular rosy barbs as well, one is doing the same thing lacking in color. It's got to be something internal...bacterial or parasitic....I think I should medicate....but idk with what...prazipro for internal parasites or something like maracyn plus for bacterial...


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