Rapid breathing after medication

[Rianyu]

Hi everyone.

I'll keep it short. I recently had a outbreak of ich. I lost 2 neons and 1 cory already during the first two days of medicating.

Good news....it looks like there is no longer any white specks on the fish in the main tank and my betta (which I had quarantined when I first suspected something was up) barely has any on her left.

My water parameters are normal (except for ammonia which I'm not sure of -I will run out tomorrow for supplies to test it). I've been doing 25% water changes every day for both tanks before medicating as instructed on the packet.

I have two neons that are now on the surface seemingly gasping for air. My bristlenose plecos are sticking themselves near the surface whenever they are resting. These and all of the rest of the fish in the tank seem to be breathing rapidly.

I'm not sure what to do so any advice would be helpful. I don't want to lose more!

PS: I am using Jungle Ick Clear tablets

 

[Mebbid]

Drop the water level and throw an airstone in the tank if you can. Your goal is to increase oxygenation as much as possible.

How many tablets did you use and what size tank is it? What is the temperature of the tank?

 

[Rianyu]

Alright will do. I guess this is an oxygen issue? I do have a filter on that agitates the water as well as live plants, so I thought I'd be ok

 

[Mebbid]

Alright will do. I guess this is an oxygen issue? I do have a filter on that agitates the water as well as live plants, so I thought I'd be ok

Medications can remove oxygen in the tank. Not sure why it happens, but it's pretty obvious when people have problems like yours.

By far the best way to treat ich is to raise the temperature up to 86 degrees over the course of a day and keep it there for 2 weeks after the last sign of ich goes away. Perfectly safe for fish and more cost effective because there's no medications involved.

 

[Rianyu]

Oh seriously? They need to put that information on the **** box....

I wish I had known that, I guess I should've done a bit of research before panicking and buying medication :T Would that have prevented my fish from dying? I started medicating pretty early so I thought I might've been in good shape...

 

[Mebbid]

Oh seriously? They need to put that information on the **** box....

I wish I had known that, I guess I should've done a bit of research before panicking and buying medication :T Would that have prevented my fish from dying? I started medicating pretty early so I thought I might've been in good shape...

Ich should never get to a point that it kills fish tbh. It's not that fatal of a disease. If you had dont the temperature treatment early, probably around 3 or 4 days before your first death then it's very likely that it would have saved your fish.

If they put it on the box, then they wouldn't make any money. The same way they suggest changing the filter cartridges monthly

 

[Rianyu]

Also sorry I missed the tablet question.

I have a 30G tank and a 5G tank for the betta. It said one tablet per 10G but be wary of small and scaleless fish...so I halved the dose, prepared to up to full dose if I didn't see improvement by the time I have to dose again.

Because most of the white dots are done for the large tank and I did suspect their breathing problems being from the medication I only gave the tank 1 1/4 tablet today rather than 3.

 

[Rianyu]

Ugh ****it. Well I guess I will know not to make that mistake again. Should I bother upping the heat still even with medication?

 

[Mebbid]

I would just finish the medication treatment at this point.

 

[Rianyu]

Alright. Thank you so much for the advice, really appreciated!

 

[Mebbid]

No problem, Good luck!

 

[Rianyu]

Update:

I had the airstone up and running, some of them looked better...

However I came back and now I have two neons left. The bristlenoses and cory are ok.

Changed 25% of the water and will not be medicating further. But I think Im going to lose the last two neons, they won't eat and still breathe really rapidly. Colours are dull too.

Sigh - this was a hard lesson.

 

[Rianyu]

Also tested ammonia today before and after water change. Readings were fine.

 

[Delapool]

Update:



I had the airstone up and running, some of them looked better...



However I came back and now I have two neons left. The bristlenoses and cory are ok.



Changed 25% of the water and will not be medicating further. But I think Im going to lose the last two neons, they won't eat and still breathe really rapidly. Colours are dull too.



Sigh - this was a hard lesson.

Do you dose every day with that product out of interest?

 

[Rianyu]

It was on the instructions if 'ick is still present' to continue medicating every day with a 25% water change until it was gone.

 

[Delapool]

It was on the instructions if 'ick is still present' to continue medicating every day with a 25% water change until it was gone.

Sorry for the follow up question but does it say what ingredients are and what the concentration level is?

I'm just curious how that is working. The ingredients are either degrading at the end of each day to no effect or they are safely compounding in strength to kill off the ich (but not your fish). It's dawn and pre-coffee here but I'm not understanding how a med can be dosed for such a long time daily with no impact on fish.

 

[Rianyu]

No worries. I'd rather learn as much as I can than not.

Active Ingredient: Victoria Green, Acriflavine

It doesnt say what concentration it is, just 1 tablet to each 10G (half if small/scaleless fish)

I just lost a bristlenose today. Cory is breathing fast aswell. Tested water again and came back with normal readings.

 

[Delapool]

No worries. I'd rather learn as much as I can than not.

Active Ingredient: Victoria Green, Acriflavine

It doesnt say what concentration it is, just 1 tablet to each 10G (half if small/scaleless fish)

I just lost a bristlenose today. Cory is breathing fast aswell. Tested water again and came back with normal readings.

Thanks for the reply. How long has tank been going again?

Geez, that sounds rough - what is your tank temp, I never saw?

Looking through the web it's hard to find much (as usual) but it seems all over the place on dosing. People have their own dosing regimes even when daily is specified.

The multi-cure product I have (although Australia is behind the times) also has MG (0.4mg/ml), acriflavine (2mg/ml) and MB (4mg/ml). It aids in the treatment of white spot. Dose once every 3 days. The last white spot med I had (MG and formalin) was also dose every three days. No fish were lost from ich or meds. I guess it depends on meds dosing concentration though as well as tank water chemistry. So hard to compare products and results.

The trouble is that I could count the number of times I've had ich on one hand (almost ). It's not like the tank gets it every few years so I've barely tried meds vs heat treatments.

However next time I'd get waterlife protozin which is dose day 1,2,3 and then day 6 to finish off. An initial daily dose makes sense and then taper off.

So I'm still getting my head around daily dosing. I just don't think you could do that for too long even with the newer US products. Happy to be corrected.

The best information I got was from seachem paraguard support site which said daily dosing was fine unless the fish was under stress. Seachem would be one product I would trust.

So I'm really just speculating here. Will have to do more research. As you have done, I'd be adjusting the dose to something that works but keeps stress as low as possible. A fine line!

The heat method for treating ich is looking perhaps safer. My limited experience has been it works fine as long as the ich is caught early. Mainly I think as you have to lift heat gradually (but at the same time the ich cycle is increasing with higher heat until it gets too hot for ich to keep breeding).

So why use meds? Well at higher heat, bacterial infections are more likely. If you have had an outbreak of columnaris recently I'd be wary of the heat method. For example.


http://www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=7065


Edit - in your case, I would be looking at a small water change to see if that improves maters. Tricky, as all white spot needs to be gone which I think you said was the case?

Here the dosing is every three days because organic material will soak up the meds until they lose effectiveness. So the med strength would be decreasing even though a little of the dye goes a long way.

 

[em1981ma]

The dye used in ick treatments all affect oxygen levels in tank. Particularly worse for fish that have the parasite buried in there gills could be the case for the reason some of your fish may not have made it. Buying a powerhead is a good idea. I use mine only when I treat for ick. Its v.powerful and aggravates the surface a lot so helps with oxygenation

Sent from my Kestrel using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Rianyu]

Tank temp currently is around 84F. Because I've stopped using the meds I wanted to raise it to make sure the ich dies, which it seems like it has. I'll keep it that level for a couple more days (unless thats a bad idea?)

This tank has been established for a little over a month. Until a week ago everything was fine.

I did another 25% water change last night, mostly to clean gravel of uneaten food.

With the way things turned out here, I will try temp next time it happens. Though right now I only have 3 guys left. I lost one of the bristlenoses and my last cory last night. They weren't eating much since medications started and stopped for the last couple days. Didn't see anything physically wrong with them besides seeming a bit lethargic so I figured they may just be adjusting with the daily water changes.

The other bristlenose is eating as is my betta. My last neon isnt and I suspect it might be stressed out because it doesnt have any others to school with but I also don't want to add more fish into a tank that my fish have been dying off in just yet.


I have a powerhead pumping air into the water via bubble wall and a waterfall filter going along with live plants. I have a hard time believing it's still an oxygen issue at this point....

Any ideas?