Re - occuring Fin rot? (Getting Angry Here)

[Saltypuppy]

Originally Posted by dkpate

I'm not sure.

Hmmm. I still have no idea if its rot or self inflicted. All I know is that it is bad. I mean I have seen pin holes a couple of times but they healed up fast. It seems as though they will just loose finnage over night.

I removed Apollo and New boy from the tank today. I cleaned all the gravel in hot decolorinated water along with all the ornaments. I pebble vac - ed and put them back in. So we will see how it goes. I am going to go back to changing out 15 % everyday and see if they get any better.

I still don't get why I am having problems. My parameters are fine... I wonder if the pet store test GH and KH... Does it matter that we have a water softener in our house? Does that help?

Boy oh boy. I just want this problem to be done already. :p

[Shadowraven]

I was pulled away from this site last month due to some computer issues, so I wasn't able to keep up with you to see how your betta was doing. I had hoped to return and find that his problem was cured, but I guess that didn't happen.

From what I've read I guess that you tried the medications suggested and had no luck. Now I'm beginning to wonder if this might not be due to other factors. If it is not self-inflicted, it may be due to other contaminants in the tank you normally can't test for.

You said that you had road construction going on nearby, did this problem begin around the same time? The construction could be causing water quality issues. This could either be from the tap or from contaminants settling out from the air and into the water. That is only one possibility though. The mini-cycle mentioned before is another, but your numbers look good.

If from the tap, a simple charcoal filter would help, as well as removing the odors and other contaminants from the water. If from something settling out of the air, the tank would need to covered on top to stop it. Charcoal may help with that as well.

Betta's do better than other fish in bowls because they are a still water fish and generally don't like strong currents. Being truly a tropical fish they also enjoy warmer temperatures, like 80-82F, than many fish do. Both of the foregoing is probably why they have adapted to taking in air from the surface to supplement their breathing. I still like to aerate their tanks, but I try to keep it from causing currents by diffusing the air from a larger surface area, say a longer airstone.

It seems to me that this must be related to water quality in some way. If he had a disease that was this resistant to treatment, I would think that your other Betta would be affected as well. That is not necessarily a hard-and-fast rule. Some fish are just more resistant than others.

You might try a journal to keep track of any changes to his health and environment, both inside and outside of the tank. That may help you to notice any patterns that you may have missed before. Keep us posted.

[Saltypuppy]

Originally Posted by Shadowraven

I was pulled away from this site last month due to some computer issues, so I wasn't able to keep up with you to see how your betta was doing. I had hoped to return and find that his problem was cured, but I guess that didn't happen.

From what I've read I guess that you tried the medications suggested and had no luck. Now I'm beginning to wonder if this might not be due to other factors. If it is not self-inflicted, it may be due to other contaminants in the tank you normally can't test for.

You said that you had road construction going on nearby, did this problem begin around the same time? The construction could be causing water quality issues. This could either be from the tap or from contaminants settling out from the air and into the water. That is only one possibility though. The mini-cycle mentioned before is another, but your numbers look good.

If from the tap, a simple charcoal filter would help, as well as removing the odors and other contaminants from the water. If from something settling out of the air, the tank would need to covered on top to stop it. Charcoal may help with that as well.

Betta's do better than other fish in bowls because they are a still water fish and generally don't like strong currents. Being truly a tropical fish they also enjoy warmer temperatures, like 80-82F, than many fish do. Both of the foregoing is probably why they have adapted to taking in air from the surface to supplement their breathing. I still like to aerate their tanks, but I try to keep it from causing currents by diffusing the air from a larger surface area, say a longer airstone.

It seems to me that this must be related to water quality in some way. If he had a disease that was this resistant to treatment, I would think that your other Betta would be affected as well. That is not necessarily a hard-and-fast rule. Some fish are just more resistant than others.

You might try a journal to keep track of any changes to his health and environment, both inside and outside of the tank. That may help you to notice any patterns that you may have missed before. Keep us posted.

Thank you for returning! The problem started before the road construction. But it has gotten worse since we started to have road construction. I don't know if there is any contaminants or not, I don't recall anything ever getting into my tank. Also wouldn't it have all been changed out by now?

With all the water changes I have been doing I figured it would be out by now...

Also is charcol is the black stuff in your cartridge I do have that.

I will start to keep track of his status and his tank too. Maybe I can figure this out.

[Shadowraven]

The only other thing I can think of is stress. Stress can cause a lot of problems in fish, including sickness. If he is feeling insecure or unsafe it could manifest physically like this.

Water quality and temperature are usually 2 of the bigger contributors to fin rot issues. You might also try changing his food or supplementing with some frozen or live foods.

But we need to make sure that we know what the cause actually is so we can quit throwing ineffective cures at it. Keeping track of changes can help to determine that.

Here is a good page to look at about the bacterial kind of rot:
Fin Rot Information and Symptoms @ petfish.net

I'll try looking around to see if there are any cases like yours and what was finally done to cure them.

[Saltypuppy]

Originally Posted by Shadowraven

The only other thing I can think of is stress. Stress can cause a lot of problems in fish, including sickness. If he is feeling insecure or unsafe it could manifest physically like this.

Water quality and temperature are usually 2 of the bigger contributors to fin rot issues. You might also try changing his food or supplementing with some frozen or live foods.

But we need to make sure that we know what the cause actually is so we can quit throwing ineffective cures at it. Keeping track of changes can help to determine that.

Here is a good page to look at about the bacterial kind of rot:
Fin Rot Information and Symptoms @ petfish.net

I'll try looking around to see if there are any cases like yours and what was finally done to cure them.

Stress could be the problem. But I don't see why. I mean he seems happy enough. I'm a little worried about frozen / live food with the parasite risk and such...

I will write down the water change schedule and their status everyday and update it on here. Thanks for helping me out with this!

[Shadowraven]

Originally Posted by Saltypuppy

Stress could be the problem. But I don't see why. I mean he seems happy enough. I'm a little worried about frozen / live food with the parasite risk and such...

I will write down the water change schedule and their status everyday and update it on here. Thanks for helping me out with this!

I could see where you may worry about live foods, but frozen should be perfectly safe.

[Saltypuppy]

Originally Posted by Shadowraven

I could see where you may worry about live foods, but frozen should be perfectly safe.

Frozen is safe? Should I pick up blood worms?

[karen21]

Do you use hairspray, or use plug-in air fresheners near or around your tank/s?
Or even just air-fresheners that you spray into the room??

[Shadowraven]

Originally Posted by Saltypuppy

Frozen is safe? Should I pick up blood worms?

Not a bad idea. Most fish absolutely love blood worms.

[Saltypuppy]

Originally Posted by karen21

Do you use hairspray, or use plug-in air fresheners near or around your tank/s?
Or even just air-fresheners that you spray into the room??

I have but far away from my tanks. I make sure not to spray anything near the tanks. Also that was a long time ago. If something did get in there I'm sure it is long gone by now.

[Saltypuppy]

Originally Posted by Shadowraven

Not a bad idea. Most fish absolutely love blood worms.

Alrighty I will look into getting some soon. Also going to buy some new pellets too.

[Jbw001]

usually root source is water quality from the tap, if you feed real light and do minimal maintenance for betta you should be fine.

[Jbw001]

you can try bottled water but it sounds like you have a larger tank

[Saltypuppy]

Originally Posted by Jbw001

you can try bottled water but it sounds like you have a larger tank

I have two ten gallon tanks... so what can I do?

[Shadowraven]

Originally Posted by Saltypuppy

I have two ten gallon tanks... so what can I do?

Just keep doing in the direction we've started you in to get this thing fixed. Bottled water is not generally a good idea since the standards it is bottled under are not as strict as one that most tap water has to meet.

[Jbw001]

purified water has no metal.......tap water does.

tap water is more strict standard, but purified water would be therapeutic.

just an opinion.

[dkpate]

Bottled water, besides being expensive, lacks the minerals and stuff that the fish need. Also, I watched a show that said a bunch of chemicals leech out of the plastic and into the water, so I am sure that's not healthy either. I don't even drink bottled water myself.

[Shadowraven]

Originally Posted by dkpate

Bottled water, besides being expensive, lacks the minerals and stuff that the fish need. Also, I watched a show that said a bunch of chemicals leech out of the plastic and into the water, so I am sure that's not healthy either. I don't even drink bottled water myself.

+1

I completely agree with this. IME it just isn't as safe.

There are chemicals that leach from the plastic and into the contents, especially if the bottle is heated. I can guarantee you from working for years in a warehouse that those bottles do get hot. Either from sunlight shining on them directly or from the heat inside the building/trailer in which they are stored/transported, which is often 100+.

[Saltypuppy]

Ok. Bottled Water = Bad ! Ok... so I had to seperate Apollo from the main tank. He looks awful. He is pale, has lost his color and isn't improving still. I was thinking of trying to do salt baths... (Its simple... but maybe it what he needs)

So what I heard about that was 1 tsp per 1 gallon - 20 mins a day. How long can I do that? What have you guys heard of or had experience with?

Meanwhile.... Blue Boy has really started to do downhill the past couple days. He had a little bit of rot, to half of his tail is gone. he is getting lazy... I don't get it. I have been changing the water 10 - 15 % everyday... Sometimes 25 % Depends how motivated I am. But he just seems to be getting worse.

I was going to try the salt baths on him too.... or should I do something else?

[dkpate]

Is it possible they have internal parasites?