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Old 08-18-2004, 06:33 PM   #1
i3k
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resistant to meds? or wrong meds?

Well, I've had this problem for a while now. The Banded Leporinus and 3 botias have been flashing against gravel and the Banded Leporinus also shakes his head from time to time. Through this whole time I have never seen anything on their bodies no white spots(ich), no golden like dust(velvet) or anything abnormal at all. I have treated the fish with 4 different meds now...I tried AquariSol, clout, RidIch+ and the latest CopperSafe. Nothing seems to be helping. Currently the temp in the tank is around 84 degrees. I also check water for ammonia every week and no ammonia is present in the tank. The pH level is around 7.0 and I do about 35% water changes every 6-8 days. Nothing seems to be helping. Can this be internal parasites or something else? cause all the meds for external parasites don't seem to be working. If anyone has any ideas on what else I can try please let me know.

Thanks all.
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Old 08-20-2004, 05:53 AM   #2
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Have you tested for nitrites and nitrates?

Fish flash when something is irritating their skin, be it parasites or from a problem with the water quality. Without any visible signs on the fish it's hard to say what could be wrong. I would stop throwing meds in for the time being. Dosing meds without knowing the exact problem with the fish can cause more harm than good.

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Old 08-20-2004, 06:43 AM   #3
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Good point Essayons89, it could be irritation fron nitrites or trates. Plus you must remember to remove one medication before useing another or you might make up some leathal combinations of medications.
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Old 08-20-2004, 02:03 PM   #4
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Well I keep checking the water for ammonia, pH and nitrite. Ammonia/0, pH/7.0, nitrite/0 plus all other fish in the tank seem to be healthy and are not flashing against anything. Also, I did filter out the meds when switching to another I did 50% water changes after each medication and filtered the water with carbon for 2 days before actually trying new medication. I still think it's some sort of parasites internal/external. The current medication (CopperSafe) lasts for 1 month so maybe its taking some time since it only been 5 days....What in the water can cause irritation? I use AmmoLock2 to remove chlorine/chloramine...should I maybe switch to Prime since it removes chlorine/chloramine/ammonia and also detoxifies Nitrite&Nitrate. All help is appreciated.
Thanks.
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Old 08-23-2004, 01:58 PM   #5
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I decided to stop medicating them and changed about 65% of the water, cleaned the gravel real good, cleaned the filter and placed the carbon back in the filter. The fish seem to be a little less irritated, still flash against the gravel but not as often. I also added some stresscoat to keep the stress down. Can algae cause have some bacteria that maybe irritating the fish? I see tiny bits of algae growin in the corners and on the front of the tank...I keep brushing it off but it comes back slowly. If the fish will start getting more and more irritated again, should I just drain the whole thing and wash everything out and start over again? I pretty much tried everything else. :|
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Old 08-23-2004, 05:30 PM   #6
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I'm puzzled as to what could be irritating them. What kind of loaches do you have? My next line of thinking would be that this could be some sort of territorial behavior but the Leporinus and the majority of loach species are pretty peaceful fish.

I would advise against tearing down the entire tank and cleaning everything. This will effectively "kill" the tank. By that I mean that you will lose your nitrifying bacteria and will have to re-cycle the tank.

You could try doing smaller, more frequent water changes and see if that helps. I was going to recommend adding a little aquarium salt to the tank but some loach species can be a little sensitive to it.

I'm at a loss here. Does anyone else have any ideas?

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Old 08-23-2004, 05:43 PM   #7
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I got some Instant Ocean salt that I mix in my other brackish water tank. How many tablespoons per 5 gallons would I add? I added some pictures of the botias and the Leporinus to the photo section if you guys wanna check them out. I guess for now I'll keep doing 25% water changes every 4 days or so to see if this will stop all the itchin' and the scratchin'. Thanks for all the help.
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Old 08-24-2004, 06:45 AM   #8
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Skip the sea salts, they will raise the hardness of your water.

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Old 08-27-2004, 04:17 PM   #9
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OK, I think the salt is doing the trick. The botias haven't been flashing against the gravel as much and the Banded Leporinus still flashes sometimes but a lot less and isn't shaking it's head as much either. So far I added 10 tablespoons of salt over 2 days. Its a 35 gal tank, should I add more salt? if so how much?

Thanks for all the help.

P.S. all the other fish in the tank seem to be doing great after the salt was added.
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Old 08-27-2004, 08:11 PM   #10
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I have been having the exact same problem with my fish and nothing seems to be working. No ick, no spots, just flashing all over the place. What kind of loaches do you have? Mine are angelicus/kubotai and the problem seemed to have started when I added them to my tank for some reason. Unlike you, all of my fish flash at one point or another, the loaches just do it more than the rest. Did the salt work for you? Did it effect/hurt the loaches in anyway? I've heard that loaches can be sensitive to salt.
I did post a question about the problem on another forum and someone told me that what they could be experiencing is "itch". It is due to an excess of food/feces in the gravel. He said the cure could be some promanganite thing (or something like that) but that it was very hard on fish and could kill them. He told me to use melafix for the time being. Let me know how it goes!
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Old 08-29-2004, 04:42 PM   #11
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I have 1 Angelicus Botia Loach and 2 Striata Botia Loaches. I thought the salt was helping, but now again they are starting to flash more. I guess the salt only relived them for 2 days, but they seem to be doing good with salt in the tank, not stressing at all. You said that you started having this problem when you added the loaches to your tank, but in my case the Banded Leporinus started flashing first and a while after that the loaches began to flash little by little. I don't know if its the food/feces in the gravel as I clean it very well every 4-5 days with about 25% water changes. I stopped medicating them for now so I can see if more frequent water changes help any. I guess if nothing helps and they start getting worse, I will have to tear down the whole tank and clean it out real good and start over again. I will keep posting updates if the fish show any improvement. If you find any more info or if your fish show some improvement, please let me know.

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Old 08-29-2004, 04:58 PM   #12
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Hey I researched on the Potassium permanganate you mentioned and it basically says that it kills 99.9% of exposed pathogenic bacteria, kills most ciliate parasites, most fluke parasitisms, fungal infections and potassium permanganate oxidizes organics in the water, leaving it cleaner and fresher than before treatment. Also I wanted to ask, do you have any algae building up in your aquarium?
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Old 08-29-2004, 10:39 PM   #13
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I don't have any algea in my tank; however, I do have a clown pleco that does an okay job at getting rid of it. There is a really good article on how to use potassium permanganate
http://www.fishprofiles.com/interact...d.asp?id=46775
apparently you're supposed to be able to get it at any drugstore, but I haven't looked for it yet. If you decide to go with this, let me know how it works!
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Old 08-31-2004, 09:40 PM   #14
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I found another site with some meds I never heard of and some of them are promising. Here is the link if you want to check it out.

http://aquariumpros.com/aquaprostore/MD.shtml
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