salt for sick featherfin?

[hbeth82]

Have a featherfin (squeaker, whatever you prefer) catfish that recently developed white spots around his mouth, which have since spread over his body. He's eating just as well as ever but seems to be breathing rather heavily. The only change within the past month is the addition of two bleheri from healthy tank (no problems so far). The water temp is about 79, trying to work it up a bit at a time. Water parameters: ammonia & nitrite = 0, nitrate = 20+ (a bit over 20 but well below 40). This is the same tank that had a random ammonia spike about 2 months ago but that's been resolved for quite a while. First thought was ick but don't see how it could have just developed if not introduced by a new addition to the tank. Here are the pics:

picture 1
picture 2

Members of another forum suggested adding well-dissolved salt to the water but I thought salt was bad for catfish. Any ideas of what this is and how it should be treated?

Thanks!

 

[mfdrookie516]

i wouldnt go with salt, its also not good for some plants... it does look like ich imo, and just because you havent introduced anything new doesnt mean it cant come about... make sure there is plenty of surface agitation, that will help alot with the rapid breathing, as ich does affect the gills of the fish first usually... i would just start doing lots of pwc's and keep the temp up, that should help get rid of it, as most meds arent recommended for scale-less fish

 

[Blueiz]

I have a eupterus cat that has done fine with salt at 2 tsp per g. He came down with ich a couple days after I got him. It does look like Ich to me as well. The temp will have to be raised to at least 86 in order to kill ich.

If you do chose to go the salt route, make sure you dissolve the salt first in some tank water or dechlorinated water and add it very slowly over a 24 hour period of time.

I'm thinking that we have the same type of cat..here's a pic of mine. He's about 8-10 inches. Please excuse the water spots..lol.

 

[hbeth82]

... make sure there is plenty of surface agitation, that will help alot with the rapid breathing, as ich does affect the gills of the fish first usually... i would just start doing lots of pwc's and keep the temp up

Thanks. The tank has two HOB filters, a powerhead, and an air stone. Hadn't planned on using any medication, mostly just concerned about using salt.

 

[hbeth82]

i wouldnt go with salt, its also not good for some plants... i would just start doing lots of pwc's and keep the temp up, that should help get rid of it, as most meds arent recommended for scale-less fish

So neither epsom salts or aquarium salt? Also, what temp would you recommend? I know the previous post recommended 86 but I like repetition

I have a eupterus cat that has done fine with salt at 2 tsp per g. I'm thinking that we have the same type of cat..here's a pic of mine. He's about 8-10 inches. Please excuse the water spots..lol.

Yeah, I think that's the scientific name for him but 'featherfin squeaker' sounds so much cooler to someone who knows nothing about fish. Does yours scale the glass very often? Occasionally catch him doing it, looks like Mothra gliding down!

 

[dkpate]

You can check this out too, for scale-less fish.

Aquarium Ich: Ichthyophthirius multifilis and Cryptocaryon irritans treatment, identification, and life cycle.

Good luck, as I am also treating ich in a betta I have had for a month, who showed no previous signs, with salt/heat. The only conclusion I can come up with to the reason he has it, is that it has been in his gills where I had not been able to see it. There were no new fish added to the tank, and I do weekly pwc's (since it's filtered), so it is still kind of a mystery. If you are going to go the salt route, as far as I know, you have to do pwc's every day.

Make sure you see in there that is says 1 tsp for 5 gallons of water for scale-less fish.

 

[hbeth82]

That link really helps, thanks. A bit reassuring that the author actually conducted real research & experimentation to back all that up. May not use the full 1tsp per 5gal but will be something close to that.

 

[mfdrookie516]

for the temp, ive heard everything from 80-90 lol. 86 seems to be the most suggested, and it worked for me. As long as you slowly move it up, 86-87 should do it for ya

 

[joy13]

Make sure you keep up with PWC the higher temperature will keep the parasites in the swimming stage longer and you will get more of them out.

 

[Blueiz]

So neither epsom salts or aquarium salt? Also, what temp would you recommend? I know the previous post recommended 86 but I like repetition



Yeah, I think that's the scientific name for him but 'featherfin squeaker' sounds so much cooler to someone who knows nothing about fish. Does yours scale the glass very often? Occasionally catch him doing it, looks like Mothra gliding down!

Mine does this very often, he will even eat the floating cihlid pellets from the top, along with his food.

A note on the epsom salt, this is not salt at all really. It is magnesium so it would be useless for treating ich.

 

[Blueiz]

You can check this out too, for scale-less fish.

Aquarium Ich: Ichthyophthirius multifilis and Cryptocaryon irritans treatment, identification, and life cycle.

Good luck, as I am also treating ich in a betta I have had for a month, who showed no previous signs, with salt/heat. The only conclusion I can come up with to the reason he has it, is that it has been in his gills where I had not been able to see it. There were no new fish added to the tank, and I do weekly pwc's (since it's filtered), so it is still kind of a mystery. If you are going to go the salt route, as far as I know, you have to do pwc's every day.

Make sure you see in there that is says 1 tsp for 5 gallons of water for scale-less fish.

1 tsp per 5 gallons will not kill ich. The minimum from all the research I have read is 2 tsp per g, some go to 3 tsp per gallon. For the minimum amount of time the salt will be in the tank, it will not hurt the cat, nor plants. Some other more highly sensitive fish, such as clown loaches would be more worrisome to treat with salt, however that has also been done effectively.

 

[dkpate]

Ok, well you can e-mail the scientists who did the tests if you don't agree.

 

[hbeth82]

Ok, well you can e-mail the scientists who did the tests if you don't agree.

I'm with you, empirical research isn't fool-proof and his work was with conducted with channel cats but prefer it over anecdotal evidence. Also would rather not make things worse for the little guy and most people seem to think upping the temp will be the most beneficial. Thanks again for the link!

 

[Blueiz]

Ok, well you can e-mail the scientists who did the tests if you don't agree.

Please post your resource for this information. From the article that you posted:

I have tested many methods over the years, and many I believe many aquarists use this method more under the assumption that is safer and even more effective, often it is neither (although under certain conditions with certain fish/invertebrates it can be safer). Salt is safe for most fish, but some fish such as elephant nose, Ghost Knives, as well as many catfish, Clown Loaches, etc. are salt sensitive (not as much as Elephant Nose) so I would be careful and not go past 2 teaspoons per gallon. This method can take so long that the fish die of the ich infestation (I have affected a cure with salt, but is generally less effective, and research bears this out). That said a tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons (20 liters) is useful for electrolytes in the aquarium and in turn aids the fish in slime coat generation. This aids in the prevention of freshwater ich and aids in the treatment of ich infestations even when used with chemical treatments. But for serious ich infestations, salt by itself is generally not enough. Under good water parameters and good circulation I will admit that I have achieved good results with the salt method for mild to moderate ich infestation, however even then, in head to head controlled tests under the same conditions, medications such as ParaGuard always worked faster with no side effects when compared to salt. I will also note as to salt treatments for ich infestations, I am not trying to knock this method for treatment among many more advanced aquarists, however I have seen many novices fail with this method more often than the medication methods. My opinion as to why this happens is that most do not have the proper circulation needed, most also wait until the last minute when the salt method is even less effective, and often many just do not have the time to monitor conditions (which is where the Medicated Wonder Shells shine), and often this all boils down to an earlier point of mine and that is all things equal, my tests with the salt method come up short as compared to products such as ParaGuard or Medicated Wonder Shells.

No where does it say that adding 1 tsp per 5 g will kill ich.

I post from mostly from my own experience, and I respect others who do the same. Check this article out. Freshwater Ich

 

[hbeth82]

Didn't make this clear in my previous post, I used that site to find this one, "salt in freshwater aquariums". Sorry for that confusion but this may have the info to which dkpate had referred. Granted, it doesn't address treating ich, only what has proven to be safe for catfish. If the problem can be effectively remedied by upping the temp (have found mfdrookie516's advice elsewhere), will likely stick with that. All help is appreciated.

This thread reminds me that there's an entire field of research concerning the tendency to over-estimate the accuracy and usefulness of anecdotal evidence which can lead to the wrong decision, and other times when people seek out so much information, they screw things up. Just throwing that out there. . .

 

[Blueiz]

Good luck in treating your cat! Since you are really concerned with the salt I would stick with the heat method. Just keep a close eye out and be sure to use a glass thermometer, or really any thermometer that goes inside the tank for a more accurate temp reading.

It's really important to start treatment as soon as possible too, no matter which one you choose

 

[hbeth82]

Thanks.
We've gradually been upping the temp a few degrees a day, up to 82-83 now and the ich spots are beginning to subside from his body (trunk, midsection, what do fish have?) but they are still quite thick around his mouth.

 

[dkpate]

On the bottom of that article there are references to the recearch.
I am so tired of being argued with by you every time I post something.

And here is where it was stated:

It should be noted that sodium chloride (salt) can be combined with all these recommended treatments at a rate of 1 teaspoon per gallon for many fish and 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons for more salt sensitive fish such as Catfish, Tetras, Clown Loaches. This will help most all medications be more effective in part by adding electrolytes that improve the “slime coat” so as to help fish naturally resist Ich.

 

[melosu58]

Ok everyone let`s try to remain civil on this. Everyone has the right to post their experience and their opinion. It`s up to the OP to decide what he wants to use. There is more than one way to do things in the world of aquaria.