Sick Black Moor

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Barbs

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
32
Location
Co.Westmeath, Ireland.
Hi All,

I hope you can help. One of my black moors has just developed a white patch around his anus. It looks like the scales have turned white! We did a water test yesterday and everything is fine. He seems fine, eating swimming around, all the usual stuff. I have searched for an answer on the web but can't identify any type of illness. I've read loads about white stringy poo but as far as I remember both have always had poo like this.

Another thing is, the other moor keeps nudging the sick one and pushing him out of the way especially at feeding time. Last night they were both going round each-other in circles. What is this a sign of?

I have also noticed both their eyes look dirty. The pupils look fine but outside looks as if there's a layer of dirt, like on a dirty windscreen (sorry, couldn't think of another way to describe it!), I just like to get them and wipe it away, lol!

Has anyone any idea what any of these signs are? All info greatly appreciated.

Thanks & regards,
Barbs.
 
What size tank are they in and how often do you perform water changes? Also, do you have a freshwater test kit (I recommend the API brand). I would perform a 50% water change with dechlorinated water and see if that helps first.
 
Hiya,
It's a Juwel Rio 180L tank and has only been set up nearly 3 weeks now. We haven't performed a water change yet as were not sure when we should do this with a new tank. We have 2 black moors which we've had for years and within the last 2 weeks we've introduced a hillstream loach and 2 (what we believe to be) white cloud mountain minnows. They all seem really happy other than these problems.
Thanks,
Barbs.

Update- We have a fresh water test kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. (a friend actually gave it to us as a gift!)
 
Can you describe the white patch more?? Is it something on top of the scale, fuzzy, smooth, raised?

Or is the fish simply losing color? If the scales & skin appears intact, and everything look normal, except for the lack of color, that is likely normal. Moors do not keep the black as they age. <My one year old moor is now totally orange except for a black stripe on his back.> It is really common for moors to turn white in the belly.

If the fish is otherwise healthy - active, no clamped fins, breathing normal, eating & pooping fine - I would just observe for now.

Do you have a boy & a girl? One nudging the other at the behind & going around in circles is mating behavior ... It is spring & just about the right time .... and moving into a bigger tank & better water conditions also can start things going ...

I don't have a great answer for the eyes ... perhaps this is a sign of excessive slime coat ... which can be anything from surface irritation due to stuff in the water (eg ammonia) to parasites.

Can you post all your water testing parameters? As I indicated in your other post, moving tank might set up a mini (or full) cycle. You should rule that out before anything else.

As to water change .... there is no harm in doing to much! <Even in a new tank. There are various myths & opinions out there that says otherwise, but that is just not true ....> A general rule is to do 10-25% weekly. You can refine that by monitoring your nitrates. If you can keep the nitrates below 10 or so, you are doing enough pwc. <Of course, the amount & frequency of pwc will need to increase as the fish grow & new fish introduced ... so you need to check once in a while even after your got a schedule set up.>
 
Can you describe the white patch more?? Is it something on top of the scale, fuzzy, smooth, raised?

Or is the fish simply losing color? If the scales & skin appears intact, and everything look normal, except for the lack of color, that is likely normal. Moors do not keep the black as they age. <My one year old moor is now totally orange except for a black stripe on his back.> It is really common for moors to turn white in the belly.

If the fish is otherwise healthy - active, no clamped fins, breathing normal, eating & pooping fine - I would just observe for now.

Do you have a boy & a girl? One nudging the other at the behind & going around in circles is mating behavior ... It is spring & just about the right time .... and moving into a bigger tank & better water conditions also can start things going ...

I don't have a great answer for the eyes ... perhaps this is a sign of excessive slime coat ... which can be anything from surface irritation due to stuff in the water (eg ammonia) to parasites.

Can you post all your water testing parameters? As I indicated in your other post, moving tank might set up a mini (or full) cycle. You should rule that out before anything else.

As to water change .... there is no harm in doing to much! <Even in a new tank. There are various myths & opinions out there that says otherwise, but that is just not true ....> A general rule is to do 10-25% weekly. You can refine that by monitoring your nitrates. If you can keep the nitrates below 10 or so, you are doing enough pwc. <Of course, the amount & frequency of pwc will need to increase as the fish grow & new fish introduced ... so you need to check once in a while even after your got a schedule set up.>

Hi,
The patch looks smooth, like the scales have changed colour. I've checked again and it looks like there's a raised lump, white with a yellow dot but this could possibly be poop, I'll check again later! I have tried them with peas and they went down well so I'm sure he's not constipated. Other than that he seems fine, swimming around, eating, pooping & looks quite normal.

I'm not sure what sex we have, how can I find out? They both look the same although one is slightly larger. I hope we don't have a boy & girl because I wouldn't know the first thing about breeding!

The water levels are - Ammonia-0, Nitrite-0, Nitrate 2?-0, PH-7.6, High-range PH-7.8. I did all the tests in the kit because I'm not sure which ones I should do! I think the PH is a little high according to the book but I'm unsure what to do.

As of yesterday I added a plant and a rock. So now I have 4 plants, 1 rock, 1 large resin rocky ornament, 2 black moors, 2 wcm minnows and a loach. Would the plants or rock affect the balance?

I'll do a water change in the next few days and see if that helps. I did clean the glass the other day but left the back pane for the loach so he wouldn't starve!

I not sure what to do about the eyes but it doesn't seem to affect them, they do rub up against the glass on occasion so perhaps that has caused the dirt.

Sorry for all the questions but I just want the best for my little cuties. Thanks for all the help so far.

Thanks & regards,
Barbs.
 
No problems about the questions. The more you ask, the more we all learn! :)

Your water parameters look good. I think we can eliminate a mini-cycle as a problem.

pH of 7.6 is perfect for goldies. <The low range kit is more precise than high range, so go with that one.> No need to mess with the water if all is stable.

If that white spot doesn't look like something stuck onto the scales, it is prob the fish losing color. Although if the area is raised, it might mean something. How big is this area/lump? Can you take a closeup pic?

Sexing goldies: Males of breeding size will have bumps on the gill covers (may extending to the leading edge of the pectoral fins). This is seen only during breeding season - spring. He will also be the one doing the chasing & bumping durign mating. Females will have bulging belly (eggs), and the vent will be everted (sticking out). <I wonder if the white patch & yellow dot is the everted vent?>

Here are pics: Sexing Goldfish
 
I have taken some really bad pics of the moor, you might get the idea though. It's so hard to photograph them when they won't stay still, lol! The third one is a side view but you have to look close!

I noticed a long white string coming out of the vent tonight, it could have been poop but I thought I'd mention it. It was clear in places, white in others and it looked like there were a few tiny black dots in some of the white parts. I went off to get the net to have a closer look as it was stuck to the plants & when I got back it was gone!!

I checked out the link & my moors vent sure looks the same, thing is the other one doesn't have any white dots on him, could they be two females?

Thanks,
Barbs.
 

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I noticed a long white string coming out of the vent tonight,... It was clear in places, white in others and it looked like there were a few tiny black dots in some of the white parts. ....

If the sticking out part looks like the pic on the link (kinda looks like that on your pic too, but hard to see ...), then I would think that you have a girl! The thing you described, if the white bumps are fairly regular & joined by clear mucus like string, that is prob. eggs. <And goldies will eat their eggs, so you might not find them.>

A young male might not have the breeding stars, and it might be difficult to see. (the first year, the spots are very faint & only just a few of them ... the spots gets more numerous & bigger as the fish gets older.)

Occassionally, in the absence of a male, the females will bump each other to stimulate the egg release ... so it is possible to have 2 females as well.
 
Sorry I haven't replied sooner. Both black moors now have the same problem. I think your right and they possibly are two females as a week or so ago the second moor released a white string like the first, by the time I got back with my camera it was gone again. The scales on both are still white though so hopefully they'll get back to normal soon. Thanks so much for the advice. :)
 
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