Sinking, dying Discus

[xlalasz]

Hey all,


I've had my discus for around two years now.

I have(had) three blue diamonds, two maize turqs, two red leopard, one white diamond, three Golden Discus, and one Red Pigeon Blood Discus.

They are mixed in a tank with four pelcos, and four black angelfish.

Recently, two blue diamonds, a maize turq, and a red leopard died.

It wasn't overnight, it was over... about 3 months time.


I searched for what was wrong with my discus, but i couldn't find an answer.

Now, ALL of the discus have the same symptoms as the ones that died:


- sink down to the bottom of the tank, breathing rapidly/sometimes very little and little movement from fins.

- when they swim, they "wobble" a lot. Almost as if they are struggling to even stay several inches above the bottom

- their top dorsal fin, it's smoothed back. looks like the fin is trying to go flat on the top of the body
- their tail fin sometimes twitch for a good five seconds before it goes back struggling to swin.

- the cheeks are dark

- very skinny, they eat regularly. I feed them Flakes, I'm not sure of the name. It's in a different language, but it is specifically for Discus. Ingredients: (Fish meal, shrimp meal, soy bean, wheatgerm meal, dry yeast, vitamins and minerals)



this time all the discus is infected, now three of them are in critical condition. They lay flat on the tank bottom. They try to get up occasionally, but they look so weak.




My angelfish and pelcos are absolutely fine...



I have a six feet long, one foot width, and two and a half feet tall tank.
Sorry, I forgot the number of gallon, but I will measure it later.



I also just changed 40% of the tank water yesterday. They aren't getting any better, in fact... they're getting worse.

further info:
Filter system is fine, I do have bubble wand about a foot long, working fine. Temperature is at 30 degree celsius (temperature dropped a little due to water change)

I do have a little planaria, i believe they are called. The tiny squiggly white worms from over feeding. (over feeding was caused by a ten year old feeding huge cup loads of food without my permission)



Please help, I know this is a long post and everything. I don't want my fishies to diee!!!

[Barnature]

I have no idea of the cause, but heres a tip: try to do very small water changes daily.

Hope this helps!

[HN1]

How often do you do water changes? Discus will benefit greatly from pristine water. The larger the changes the better. I know of discus breeders that will change 90% when raising juvies. Small changes will do nothing significant for a tank that size. Your tank measurements come out to about 110G.

You may also want to vary their feeding to include something more "meaty" (beefheart, blood worms, etc.). Do you test your parameters with a liquid reagent kit? If so, what are your readings?

[xlalasz]

I do water changes about once a week, each time 40-50%.

I always thought that was too much.

But in the past month, I was away and my helper forgot to change the water. He only fed them.

That's when their conditions worsen.




I checked again this morning, one of my pelco's died a very horrible death.

One of the discus isn't laying on the side anymore, but on its stomach. The other two have worsen, their gills are raised and sometimes non responsive.

I put them in a seperate tank, hoping they will go peacefully now.




as for a liquid reagent kit, there are so many out there that I don't know which one to choose.

However a friend of mine says I might have too much chlorine and amonia?

How do I find a kit to test ph, chlorine and amonia??




And thank you, I will try to buy meatier food for them. How often should I feed them those kinds of food?

I hear they are quite expensive to feed daily?

[buddha_red]

api makes a fresh water master kit, i have used them for years, its very important to have one. next are you using a de-chlorinator with every water change? you should have NO chlorine its deadly.

Get the test kit and test your water. Post your results.

[HN1]

Do an extra water change or two. Clean water will save your fish. Don't worry about too much or too often. What dechlor product are you using? You definitely need to test your water. The API Master FW kit is pretty good and relatively affordable (~$20).

[Fromthelbc]

do you add dechlorinator to your water?

and you can buy like a pack of frozen blood worms for like 4-6 dollars, and it comes with like 24(possibly more or less) cubes of frozen blood worms...

[happygirl65]

I think you can still save them if you are willing to do daily water changes, maybe even twice daily while they are in quarantine (don't forget to dechlorinate the water with prime or something like it)

Judging from the info that you went away for a month and they didn't get a water change, and then your child fed too much I would say you had a massive ammonia spike. You need to do lots of water changes at this point to keep them alive. Make sure the water temp coming in is the same as the tank temp. Do at least daily changes for a while (at least 10 days) if you want them to recover. Then wean it down gradually to one 50% change every 3 - 5 days max if you can.

In my personal experience my discus would suffer if I was even a few days late with a water change. They need absolutely pristine water. I did 60% water changes every 5 days on my 90 gallon planted tank and they would still act happier if I could sneak in an additional water change in a week.

They are also very susceptible to diseases which angels can be carriers of and not be affected by so you have to be very careful with your quarantine procedures when mixing anything with discus (even other discus)

Definitely get a test kit, you need to test for
Ammonia (should be 0)
Nitrite (should be 0)
Nitrate(should be under 15 for discus)
API master freshwater test kit is pretty easy to find and easy to use. Test everyday right now while your fish are sick. Clamped fins are a sign of severe stress.
Many people will actually age their water for discus so they don't have to add additional chemicals to the water to dechlorinate it, this way they can also have a heater going so it is the same temp as the water coming out of the tank, they can also add a power head to agitate the surface and gas off any CO2 so there is also no change in pH level in the tank with the large water change.
I wish you all the best. Discus are beautiful and can be quite rewarding but require a lot of maintenance.

For what it's worth, my daughter also fed some discus of mine....even though I sucked out as much food as I could and did a 50% water change immediately, the little piggies ate so much before I could get it out that they all bloated and died. I learned to be a lot more careful and locked the food away where my kids couldn't get to it anymore.

[mom2reds]

I don't have anything to help you. I just wanted to wish you luck.

[severum mama]

I may be way off base here, but the fact that your discus were eating and still are very skinny suggests that you might have parasites. If you have ruled out everything else (with a good liquid test kit like API's), as a last resort you might try medicating them. I've had success with Prazi Pro (praziquantel) in the past. Again, I'm by no means an expert on fish disease and medication, but it was just a thought. Good luck.

[bs6749]

Originally Posted by severum mama

I may be way off base here, but the fact that your discus were eating and still are very skinny suggests that you might have parasites. If you have ruled out everything else (with a good liquid test kit like API's), as a last resort you might try medicating them. I've had success with Prazi Pro (praziquantel) in the past. Again, I'm by no means an expert on fish disease and medication, but it was just a thought. Good luck.

Praziquantel is for external parasites and it won't touch the intestinal flagellates, which are the most likely cause or the thin bodied discus. You will need metronidazole in order to treat for these flagellates. The most effective way is by using medicated flake food. You can order one such food here: Medicated Flake Food for Fish Look at the antiprotozoan flake.

[hacket]

Originally Posted by xlalasz

I have(had) three blue diamonds, two maize turqs, two red leopard, one white diamond, three Golden Discus, and one Red Pigeon Blood Discus.

They are mixed in a tank with four pelcos, and four black angelfish.

That is way too many discus (plus others) for a 110 gallon tank. I've heard tell of 10 gallons per discus and I'd even round it up to 15 gallons X 12 discus, making a 180 gallon tank the bare minimum, even if you didn't have other fish (which you do).

I'm sure what happened is, due to overcrowding, your discus got stressed and developed some disease. Discus are extremely sensitive.

Just remember the 15 gallons per discus rule and keep the water fresh!

[HN1]

IMO, the number of discus is not the issue. 4 Plecos alone (assuming common) greatly overstocks a 110. A dozen or more discus could be fine in that tank size given the proper water quality, but with plecos in the tank the water quality will absolutely suffer. Once again, I believe any deaths here will come down to overall bioload and water quality.

[bs6749]

Originally Posted by hacket

That is way too many discus (plus others) for a 110 gallon tank. I've heard tell of 10 gallons per discus and I'd even round it up to 15 gallons X 12 discus, making a 180 gallon tank the bare minimum, even if you didn't have other fish (which you do).

I'm sure what happened is, due to overcrowding, your discus got stressed and developed some disease. Discus are extremely sensitive.

Just remember the 15 gallons per discus rule and keep the water fresh!

That's not overstocked for discus as long as water changes are being done as they need to be. 10g per ADULT discus is the rule of thumb that the experts go by. And with larger tanks like a 180 that provide extra length the number could be more like 24 and not 18.

Discus are not extremely sensitive fish, I don't know why people keep saying that they are. They are one of the more resilient fish when they DO get sick. Keep the nitrates under 20ppm (the lower the better) and do regular water changes, feed them well, and they will thrive. Don't let them have the chance to get sick in the first place. This all has to do with a regular water change schedule and being able to take proper care of the fish.