SOS my convict might not make it (Updated)

[rjb0333]

I have a 38 gal tank that was sitting in my basement and like the real smart person that I am I went to the LFS and got advice on how to set it up and what to get. In the end I went home with an under gravel setup, 2 power heads pushing 290 gph (I think that might be a little excessive) a 200w heater, and some eco-start which supposedly conditions the water and establishes the biological filtration. The guy at the LFS said I was ready for fish as soon as the tank was up and running as long as my temperature was holding steady at 80 fahrenheit. So I took everything home and set it up, I was back at the store that afternoon. The guy sent me home with a jack dempsey a fire mouth cichlid, a convict and a peacock cichlid. So I got the fish acclimated to the tank and put them in. The next morning the Peacock was dead so I went online and did some research, I found out that it was probably destined for a grave in that tank because it was a peaceful African cichlid in a tank full of South American cichlids. So I took it back to the store and vented my frustrations, the guy at the store then sent me home with a tiny white Oscar and a pink convict. I get home and my water was cloudy, so I took a sample and drove 30 minutes to a LFS that is supposed to be one of the best in the county according to a local magazine. They tested my water and said that my ammonia is really high. So I went home and tried to return my 2 new fish and the store wouldn’t take them back (I didn’t even pay for them and I wanted to give them back) So I came back home and eventually released them into the murky water. The Oscar is fairing quite well at least it seems but the pink con has been relentlessly chased by the black con for hours and has since been parked at the top of the tank barely moving and refusing to eat. Does anyone have any advice; I don’t want the fish to die.
Sorry for the long version but I figured it would be best if I put out all the facts


Updated 5/17/07

So far it looks like they are gonna pull through, I have been doing Daily 50% water changes and the cloudiness isn't nearly as bad. I will be able to purchase a better test kit in about a week so hopefully my ammonia levels will have improved. My only problem is that i have an unidentified cichlid that wont stop bothering the convict. So hopefully that problem will just work itself out. I will try to post pictures this weekend or if i can make it back home sooner.

 

[LandGhoti]

Your tank is not cycled. Ammonia is toxic to fish, so to keep them alive, you need to do water changes to try and keep the ammonia down to <1 ppm. Also, you need to invest in a liquid test kit so you can monitor your water parameters yourself without having to drive to the LFS to test your water. The Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Master FW Test Kit is what most of us on here use, and it is very reliable and accurate.

The cloudy water is a bacteria bloom, which is the start of the nitrogen cycle. There is a sticky at the top of this forum that you should read so you know what goes on during the cycle.

My only other advice is to not listen to LFS employees, no matter how highly the store is recommended. They are usually just looking for a sale and not interested in helping the customer start a tank safely or correctly.

 

[rjb0333]

how often should i change the water and how much should i take out to keep the fish alive but keep the tank cycling, i have a liquid test kit called the Mardel 5 on 1 test strips they measure Nitrate, Nitrite, Hardness, Alkalinity, and pH. Everything seems to be fine except the pH is
between 8 and 8.4. I have been changed 10% of the water for the past 2 days

Thank you for your help

 

[LandGhoti]

You really need a test for ammonia because that is the first part of the nitrogen cycle. Test strips are notoriously not accurate so it would help if you have a liquid test kit, like the API one I mentioned before.

You'll likely need to change out at least 50-75% of the water daily to keep the ammonia down to acceptable levels. It will be impossible to know what is going on, though, unless you can see how much ammonia you actually have.

The only other solution with the test kit you have is to change the water daily and continue testing for nitrites. When you start to see nitrites, you know your ammonia is at 0, but you'll still have to do water changes because nitrite is just as toxic to fish as ammonia. When you start to see your nitrites going down, you can start testing for nitrates.

Basically you'll have to continue to do daily water changes until you know you have 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and about 10-20 ppm nitrates.

It is really the only solution to try and keep the fish alive while you cycle (since you said the LFS won't take the fish back).

 

[rjb0333]

Well thats a bummer, will changing the water without testing hurt the fish. The only reason i ask is that i pretty much broke the bank on the tank and the setup, cant afford the AP kit for about a week. Thanks for your help again, hopefully this will break my chain of bad decisions that almost killed my fish.

 

[rich311k]

Changing the water will never hurt fish. Match the temperature and add dechlor and you can change as much as you want as often as you want.

 

[rjb0333]

thanks for all of the advice/help my girlfriend might kill me if the (pretty pink one) dies

 

[LandGhoti]

Rich makes a good point: you do need dechlorinator when changing out water (Seachem's Prime or something similar). A bottle of that will go a long way and doesn't cost much.

No worries--you didn't make bad decisions willfully. You took advice from a LFS employee who wanted to sell you as much stuff as he could. We'll get you and your tank all straightened out.