The ever favorite Ammonia!!

[BrianNY]

Well it's your back man. *LOL*

To help you keep that water in tip top condition for the future, I'd try finding a high protein food source now and get her off eating any feeder fish. JMO. Frozen minnows, freeze dried krill, or anything large enough so that if uneaten you can remove it in say 10 minutes.

[TankGirl]

I will second Brian's recommendation to hold off on feeder fish. Even if she does eat them right away and they don't hang out in the tank, they are still in the fish, and whatever disease they might be carrying will be ingested. If you can get a 20gal or so and some mollies or platys, or guppies, you can "grow" your own feeders and be confident they are disease-free. Just a suggestion!

Keep us posted - we are really looking forward to a favorable outcome!

[butch]

Then frozen minnows and freeze dried krill will be her diet for a while. And I have been thinking about setting up a smaller tank for feeder fish. This just be the right time to start one! And I have the filters and equipment from the smaller tank she was in. I did give away the 50 gallon tank, but I still have a lot of the equipment from it. 10-20 gallon tanks are almost nothing to buy. A few bags of gravel and I will be all set. Now all I have to figure out is where to put it The dining room table is out

Thank you all for your concern, help and advice..you have been terrific.
I'm still working on the pictures.
Butch

[butch]

Well gals and guys, my ammonia is down to almost 0...under 1.0 but just above 0.
And as you all predicted I now have a lot of nitrates. And the solution to that my friends is??????????? It is about between 3.0 and 5.0, I guess that would make it 4.0 (I'm good at math right!!!)I know it isn't as toxic as the ammonia, but isn't good either. PH is fine. So once again I am looking to the experts for some sound advise.

Thank you again
Butch

[TankGirl]

NitrAte or nitrIte? Either way, water changes to dilute this are in order. If it is nitrite, then lowering the water level, adding air stones and otherwise increasing oxygenation and surface agitation will ease the stress of nitrite poisoning. Lowering water temp to the lower range of acceptable for the species will help as well. Salt helps the fish get through this also but I don't know if your fish can tolerate salt or not.

If it is nitrAte you have, then just do regular water changes however many times a month/week that is necessary to keep it in check.

[butch]

Tank girl...Thanks...It is Nitrite. She can tolerate the Aquarium salt as I have used it before. And she loves bubbles so I will use more airation. I am not sure about the temperature, but I will try and see how she reacts. Please tell me that eventually this will be over and the tank once again will cycle and be alright. It was fine for 6 months and then all this started to happen.

thanks for your answer and I will keep you posted.
Butch

[TankGirl]

Butch - this will be over, the tank will once again cycle, and everything will be allright! It really, really will. As long as you remain as patient as you have been and keep on doing what you are doing the cycle will complete, it HAS to! The only thing that will hamper it are factors that kill off your biofilter, and you are working very hard to nurture your biofilter, so the prescription here is "tincture of time," as they say.

[BrianNY]

Very happy for you Butch. Tankgirl makes a good point about guarding against factors killing off your good bacteria. Either that's what occured or.....

JMO here and I'm only guessing. I'm trying to envision the type of filtration needed to maintain a 36" fish in a 6 foot tank. A fish like that will produce a tremendous amount of waste. Feeding feeder fish compounds the waste problem. My guess is that you were way overfeeding and the bio filters just couldn't keep up. Very often people kill their pets with kindness. It's like the only thing we can do for them is feed them. When the bio load is stressed, less food is better.

If this were my tank I would look into a large wet/dry filter.

[butch]

Tank Girl..Thanks, just hearing you say it will be alright eases my mind and gives me patience. I usually don't listen to advise from different people, I have found if you keep doing what one person says and it works, just keep doing what they say. Anyway..someone else said something about putting a sea shell or a coral skeleton in the tank to lower the nitrites. In some strange way, it sort of makes sense...if you are saying use Aquarium salt and sea shells and coral come from salt water...salt is salt...I will not do that unless it makes sense to you or Brian. You guys have gotten me and my lady through some really bad times, and I have come to rely on your advise.

Butch

[Menagerie]

Anyway..someone else said something about putting a sea shell or a coral skeleton in the tank to lower the nitrites. In some strange way, it sort of makes sense...if you are saying use Aquarium salt and sea shells and coral come from salt water...salt is salt...

TG didn't say salt will lower nitrites, only help your fish get through nitrite posioning! The nitrites are still there and water changes are the only way to go. You and your lady will just have to keep up those water changes until nitrites get to undectable levels, just as the ammonia is

[TankGirl]

Exactly, Menagerie, the salt helps the fish get O2 better while there is nitrite present, but you still have to wait for the bacteria to colonize in the tank and filter.

Brian's got a good question there about your filtration. You definitely need what some might call overfiltration for that tank just due to the large fish you have.

[butch]

I am not sure that my last reply went through...so I will repeat myself. I presume you are talking about solid wastes...because I don't think I could measure liquid wastes I looked into the wet/dry filters..are you saying a wet dry filter could replace my canister filter or get one to help my canister filter?? The ones I found are kind of pricey. I may have misunderstood about the sea shells.
I will just continue to do water changes and lower the amounts I am feeding her. I think once I start giving her some high protein food like Brian suggested, she will act less hungry and add Aquarium salt....and most importantly have patience!!!

Butch

[Menagerie]

I presume you are talking about solid wastes...because I don't think I could measure liquid wastes

Both You can see the solid waste and that needs to be vacuumed out. The liquid wastes are what's feeding the bacteria.

[butch]

Menagerie So if liquids wastes are feeding the bacteria, is that a good thing? or a bad thing?
I know that adding feeder fish right now (and possibly into the future) is a no-no, but when the ammonia was so high, I lost my Plecko. By eating the algae, which the Plecko did, could this be part of the problem I am having with the cycling of my tank? I am just asking because after I lost that fish, I was thinking of replacing it. Of course I don't know whether my lady will welcome another fish, she is pretty aggressive with other fish. The two of them sort of grew up together, so they each got bigger and bigger at the same time, so she didn't really bother the Plecko. Of course now I plan on waiting until this cycle is back to normal and then I will think about getting another fish. It just may be a coincidence, but it seems the fewer fish in the tank, other than feeder fish, the more problems I have been having.

Butch

[BrianNY]

That isn't exactly the case Butch. I'm only guessing here but that huge fish in a relatively small space will fare much better without any tankmates. Every fish you place in that tank contributes to the bioload.

The wet/dry filters are expensive. I've never owned one. Cary Strong (of Great Lakes Discus and whom I respect more than anyone in the discus world), told me that he believes the additional good bacteria his wet/dry filters provide are a key reason to his success. I just think that if I had a fish like yours, I'd spend the extra bucks on the proper filter. That fish would be VERY hard to replace. JMO.

BTW the wet/dry would be in place of any other filters in your tank. Take the filters you are using now, and go get some more tanks. LOL

[frshwaterfinatc]

I'm only on here for a bit, so I haven't read all the pages, but have you siphoned the gravel (vacuumed) yet? You should do so to rid the substrate of the bioload created by decaying fecal matter and uneaten food particles. It will drop your ammonia levels signifigantly.

[butch]

frshwaterfinatc-Yes, I siphon the gravel when I do the massive water change every other day!! As Brian will attest, I have the back and muscles to prove it We just had a bout with ammonia and we are now trying to get the nitrite level down. My lady is one big fish, but is doing better each day. Her color is back, she is eating like a horse and although still a little inactive, she is doing well..and much better than before.
Well, Brian, if I set up another tank or two I may have to share my office and probably get a second job to pay for all the new equipment and water :P

Butch

[Menagerie]

Menagerie So if liquids wastes are feeding the bacteria, is that a good thing? or a bad thing?

It's normal. The solid wastes also break down, but liquid fish waste is mostly ammonia and that gets to the filter quickest.

[butch]

FYI... Latest course of action...50% water change, vacuumed gravel, cleaned algae on sides of tank, added Aquarium salt and lots and lots of airation. She seems to be adjusting well to all these changes and salt. Her appetite is still good and color is also good. Seems to me she is a pretty hardy fish. Will continue with the water changes every other day, and I will check the water levels tomorrow when things have settled down.

Butch

[butch]

YIPPEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All the levels are perfect! Nitrites 0 Ammonia 0 and ph just the way she likes it. I can't begin to thank all you wonderful people for all your help and concern. My lady is getting nothing but dried food. She doesn't like the krill or shrimp, but I found these high protein sticks that she really enjoys. There is very little waste, since she comes up to the surface to "dine". The water is crystal clear and she is having a blast!!!! I will continue with the dried food and continue to do regular water changes, perhaps not every other day...my back is killing me , but I will keep a very close eye on all the levels.

You guys are the best and this is the absolute best fish site on the net.

Butch and his lady