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Old 02-02-2013, 03:46 PM   #1
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tough ich

I am encountering the toughest ich I have EVER seen in almost 40 yrs of fishkeeping. I have tried every trick, treatment, voodoo, and blackmajic on it that I can think of, and it cannot be destroyed. I have used heat, heat with salt, malachite green, formalin, prazi, victoria green(a&B) Meth blue, potassium permanganate and none of it has even slowed down the Tomite stage of the parasite. I am totally blank on this strain of ich. I am in the process of using copper now, didn't want to due to the tank being planted. At the first point I noticed a few spots on the fish, I started treatment with Quick Cure(M.green-formalin) blend. A few more spots showed up, and I figured the next batch of swarmers that hatched out the meds would get them. WRONG!!! Within 3 days some of the fish looked like they were rolled in salt, and it has continually gotten worse every cycle despite all the treatments. If the copper don't work I will euthenize the fish, and nuke the tank with hot bleach, and start over.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #2
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I haven't experienced ich... yet. Rather than killing the fish can you put them all in another tank? Are they likely to recover from ich?
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:25 PM   #3
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I haven't experienced ich... yet. Rather than killing the fish can you put them all in another tank? Are they likely to recover from ich?
Wouldn't work. Ich sticks on the fish, and doing so would infect the other tank.
Did you try vacuuming the gravel+water changes often?
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:32 PM   #4
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How long did you treat for each med? You should atleast turn your heat up and treat for atleast 2 weeks.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:52 PM   #5
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Right the Theronts are on the fish, and moving the fish would infect another tank. There is an old method of moving fish between 4 different tanks every 4 days, but I am out of tank space. I have vaccuumed the gravel every day hoping to remove some of the trophonts from the tank, and that action in turn did a small WC everyday. The heat was at 88 for 10 days, no affect on the ich at all. The meds were used for the normal 3-4 day cycle. They just didn't kill the free swimming ich in the water. It increased drastically in numbers on the fish in spite of the meds. These are some tough fish to endure this outbreak, and treatments. Hopefully the copper based meds work
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:55 PM   #6
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Right the Theronts are on the fish, and moving the fish would infect another tank. There is an old method of moving fish between 4 different tanks every 4 days, but I am out of tank space. I have vaccuumed the gravel every day hoping to remove some of the trophonts from the tank, and that action in turn did a small WC everyday. The heat was at 88 for 10 days, no affect on the ich at all. The meds were used for the normal 3-4 day cycle. They just didn't kill the free swimming ich in the water. It increased drastically in numbers on the fish in spite of the meds. These are some tough fish to endure this outbreak, and treatments. Hoprfully the copper based meds work
Did you make sure to remove all carbon filtration?
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:33 PM   #7
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I never run carbon in my filters unless the water gets stained from wood or plant residue. I do use it to remove meds. Keep the ideas coming please. Sometimes we overlook the obvious when a problem is occuring
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:35 PM   #8
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The best would be to use some more meds+heat+salt+Frequent water changes+frequent gravel changes. This is possibly the best way to do it since you're at a very late stage. You might as well stress you're fish then watch them die eh?
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:44 PM   #9
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There are some newer strains of ich resistant to heat and most meds. Go to National Fish Pharmecuticals website and purchase quinine sulfate. You will need to remove the copper completely before switching meds. EDTA or product containing is suggested for removing copper.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:45 PM   #10
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What about a salt dip for the infected?
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:04 PM   #11
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There are some newer strains of ich resistant to heat and most meds. Go to National Fish Pharmecuticals website and purchase quinine sulfate. You will need to remove the copper completely before switching meds. EDTA or product containing is suggested for removing copper.
Thanks for the info. I checked out the site very complete product line. Have you used the Q-Sulfate before. If so were the results satisfactory. I am ordering the Q-Sulfate tomorrow. Maybe that will kick this strain of ich
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:33 AM   #12
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I have it but I have never had to use it because increasing the salinity to .3 to .5% for ich treatment has always worked for any new goldie. That said, its an old school med but its very difficult to find these days because its used for 'other' purposes. Its more commonly used in sw tanks but works just as well in fw and will work when nothing else has. Its safe for scaleless fish too and doses do not need to be to cut unlike other more common ich meds.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:03 PM   #13
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I was going to order the meds tonight, but wanted to give the Coppersafe a chance to work. That being said, the fish are much better looking tonight. FAR less Theronts on the fish tonight. Hopefully the copper will kill off the swarmers that hatch out here in a few days. If the fish don't reinfect in a few days then I think I might be getting ahead of it. Unfortunately I lost all 8 of my Rasbora Vetefloris. They were just starting to get nice color. the thing that really mystifies me is there hasn't been anything added to that tank in months. So where did it come from. One other tank is infected through my own fault. Used the siphon hose to WC another tank the same day(before I realized I had ich in the original tank. Followed up on your post that there are new virilant strains of ich out there. My research more than confirms your facts. I thank you all for your help, and suggestions in my catastrophy. I haven't had an ich issue in 25 yrs. Feel like a beginner again.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #14
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I am using ParaGuard by Seachem. I was hesitant to use meds, because I have cories, Plants, and soon to be Red Cherry Shrimp. Hasn't turned anything Blue, But has done a number on the Ich. IT looks to be almost gone and I have just started treating last nite. I had several spots on my Glowlights, and Neon Tetras. The spots are fading like nothing there. I did turn my heater down, and it is at 85 instead of 88. I heard Paraguard takes a while, so heating it up takes the time down. I tired heat only, Got more spots.
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Old 02-04-2013, 09:23 PM   #15
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I am using ParaGuard by Seachem. I was hesitant to use meds, because I have cories, Plants, and soon to be Red Cherry Shrimp. Hasn't turned anything Blue, But has done a number on the Ich. IT looks to be almost gone and I have just started treating last nite. I had several spots on my Glowlights, and Neon Tetras. The spots are fading like nothing there. I did turn my heater down, and it is at 85 instead of 88. I heard Paraguard takes a while, so heating it up takes the time down. I tired heat only, Got more spots.
Glad the meds are working well for you. I was going nuts trying to find something that would work. The heat route didn't work for me either. I will definitely be adding some different meds to my arsenal in the future. I am very happy jlk put me on to the new place to get meds. They have a terrific selection of them. Hopefully we will all get past this ich thing, and have happy, healthy fish again. Hope you don't have any losses.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:37 PM   #16
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Sorry about your losses, Foster. Hopefully, the copper will knock this out. NFP is great site for meds, especially for things not very common or if you need to treat a large tank/pond. Angelsplus is another good site, especially for med foods. Keep us posted on how things are going!
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Old 02-05-2013, 06:55 AM   #17
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Sorry about your losses, Foster. Hopefully, the copper will knock this out. NFP is great site for meds, especially for things not very common or if you need to treat a large tank/pond. Angelsplus is another good site, especially for med foods. Keep us posted on how things are going!
Losses are part of the hobby I guess. Although not a pleasant part. i will keep you updated on the progress. Things looked better last night. Hopefully they don't become reinfected from the next hatch of tomites. A couple days should tell the story. Once again thank you for putting me on to the site for meds. I put it in my favorites bar. Hopefully I never need it
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:48 PM   #18
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Update on the weird ich I was fighting. Its GONE. At least off the fish. I haven't seen any reinfestation so far, so hoping for the best. I will be more at ease in about 2 weeks.LOL Thank you everyone for all the suggestios, and input on this fiasco. Guess Copper has become the remedy for ich for me. Haven't had it in 20 yrs. and hope I don't encounter it again. I am rethinking my position on ich being in the tank at all times but dormant. When this occurance happened, there had been nothing added to the tank for months. But all of a sudden it had ich in it???? More research is necessary I think. Anyone have thoughts on this?
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:19 PM   #19
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Yes, ich can live encysted in fish's gills for lengthy periods of time. I have read reports of months to much longer until the fish is subject to some stressor that lowers immunity and allows the ich to infest. A bit more common with pond fish that live in variable climates. I don't have the link on my cell but there's an informative article on ich I have on my computer with scientific links- I believe you may find it if you google 'The Skeptical Aquarist/ich'. Glad to hear your fish are improving!
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