Two sick fancy guppies - please help

[hcourts]

They go hand in hand actually pimafix may cover more? I don't really know from that pic:/ I would keep treating. If your levels are up then do a water change and then dose your tank for the day. You can also add alittle salt

 

[callisto9]

Can I add salt to a tank that has a apple/mystery snail?

What kind of salt? Table, sea, iodized, aquarium?

Thank you!

 

[JerseyGirl1385]

Snails can handle some salt, but not a lot.

You'd be better off moving them to another location and then treating your tank with salt.
I lost 4 apple snails because I was mislead by the "kids" at Pet Smart who said they'd be fine.

You have to use plain salt- no additives.
They make salt specifically for aquariums- I buy mine from Walmart.

You can also use NON-IODIZED table salt.

 

[callisto9]

Thanks JerseyGirl. I have read that salt is not good for a planted tank. Is that true?

Unfortunately, I don't have any place to move my snail other than a glass jar or something. I could do that, but I don't know how well he'd do in there for several days. Thoughts?

 

[callisto9]

This site recommends a "dip" - meaning, make up the salt solution and dip the fish in it. That might not be a bad idea.

 

[JerseyGirl1385]

You could go ahead and give it a try and see what happens--at worst, you lose some plants but save your fish.

You could try to cure the ick using heat only (and no salt). You need to achieve temps of at least 84, preferably 86, and keep those temps for 2 full weeks in order to do this. You need to ramp the temp up to that level as quickly as you can without stressing your fish, since as the temp rises the ick will multiply & spread faster, which means your fish will get worse before they get better.

You could remove all of your plants (put them in an empty tank or big bucket of water) and then treat the tank using the salt & heat method. The thing to remember here is there is likely ick on the plants, so you need to keep the plants isolated (in a container with absolutely no fish) for at least 3 weeks, or 2 weeks if you heat the water up to the mid-80's. Unlike lots of protozoa which can go into a cyst/dormant stage and "hang around" for months (or years), ick cannot--if there is no host organism (fish) available, all of the available ick will die once the time for a complete lifecycle has passed. It will help your plants survive if you can put the bucket somewhere it is going to get some sunlight, and you may want to put a pinch of fishfood in the bucket as an ammonia source.

And as for the snails- I'm not too sure. A friend of mine kept his in a 2 gallon bucket with tank water but changed it daily bc Snails have a large bio load and are sensitive to ammonia build up.

 

[callisto9]

Thank you again for your advice JerseyGirl. I'm pretty sure that the guppy has isn't ich though - ich looks like spots and what he has looks like a thin layer of cotton on his body.

That's the main problem I'm having - I don't know what this guppy has - bacterial, fungal or parasite.

It seems like it might be easier to treat the fish in a separate tank than move all the plants and the snail...

 

[JerseyGirl1385]

I'm sorry- I was assuming ICH.

My head isn't screwed on well today lol

Good luck with whatever way you choose and keep us posted. I'm cheering for you!

 

[callisto9]

Based on what I've read here: Guppy Ailments and Remedies

I think my guppies have this:

Fungus

Fungus is actually a colourless plant which appears as a whiteish cotton-wool look on the guppy body or fins. Fungal diseases normally only attack weak guppies where they have had damage to the skin or gills, or when their slime layer has been weakened for some reason (such as a previous bacterial problem). Fungus also occurs when guppies are kept in tanks that are too cold. Saprolegnia fungus seems to be a culprit in the death of fry, attacking the gills and causing massive deaths even before symptoms show. Jungle's "Small Fish Saver" is made to combat this problem.

Remedies for Fungus:

Salt: Add salt at the rate of 1 teaspoon per gallon; if you normally add salt, double the amount you usually use. In a hospital tank you may want to follow the Salt Treatment as described at the bottom of this page.

Malachite Green: See "Ich Cures" on Parasitic Problems

Methylene Blue: This is a bluish organic dye useful for combating fungus and some external protozoan infestations: Costia, Chilodonella (Sliminess of the Skin), Saprolegnia (fungus), Trypanosoma (blood parasite, rare in aquariums). It also reverses nitrite poisoning by aiding oxygen transfer across the gills.

Methylene Blue can be used in shipping water to help provide protection from fungal infections due to damage and help oxygen transfer, reducing the possibility of nitrite poisoning. Considerations: Continuous treatment over the course of several days is needed; Methylene Blue will damage plants; it must be used in a hospital tank (it destroys the helpful bacteria in the biological filter) without organic matter (which easily deactivates it). It also discolours aquarium equipment, including silicone sealant.

or this:

Columnaris

This looks similar to fungus, but is actually caused by one of two types of gram-positive bacteria. Its causes are not really understood, but it may arise due to crowded tanks, poor water conditions, inadequate filtration, or poor water circulation (aeration). It manifests itself in the beginning of the disease as a whiteish area where the pigment appears gone, usually on the peduncle or the body's middle area ("saddleback columnaris"). The guppy will later show difficulty swimming as the body slowly becomes paralyzed. Most often this affects female guppies for some reason, and it is highly infectious -- it can destroy all the fish in the tank if the affected fish is not removed.

To cure columnaris, treatment must be initiated as soon as symptoms show. Breeder Stan Shubel has cured columnaris with a formalin (37%) dip, then leaving the fish in a tank with two drops of this formalin per gallon for a few days. Strong aeration is a must with the treatment. Formalin is a strong chemical which I do not advocate the use of; see more information under Fluke Treatments (Parasitic Problems). A wide-spectrum antibiotic such as Maracyn is an alternative.

I have personally cured columnaris by making 2 large 50% initial water changes, then adding salt over the course of 3 days to triple the amount the fish are accustomed to. In a few days you should see vast improvement if not a complete cure. Leave the salt in the water until the fish look completely clear of the disease, and then remove the salt (or return the formerly-used concentration) by doing a few water changes over the next week. This is the safest possible remedy and one that I wholeheartedly endorse, since salt is safe for fish and humans.

Potassium permanganate (KMnO4), an oxidizing agent, can be used as a short-term bath (30 minutes at 10 mg/L). Careful observation of the guppy is important to avoid mortality since it is a very strong chemical. Potassium permanganate should not be used more often than once a week to avoid gill or mucus damage.

Just putting this out there for others to see!

 

[hcourts]

They have the fungus tabs at Walmart that I have used that work well and my snails

 

[callisto9]

Thanks so much everyone. The other fish is looking slightly better today.

I dosed again with Pimafix - which is supposed to treat fungal stuff. Did a 1 gallon water change (out of six gallons).

The filter is still out. How harmful is that going to be for the nitrogen cycle/bio stuff?

I really would like to try the salt solution, but with plants and a snail, I don't think it's a good idea.

 

[hcourts]

I'm 95% sure pimafix doesn't affect your cycle. Just test your water everyday. Also, I'd pull ur media from the fridge. That bacteria will survive in a warm wet place. Not sure how it would do with the cold. I think it may lessen it. Sounds like your on a good track!! Just remember if your levels are up you can do a bigger water change before you dose your pimafix for the day!!

 

[callisto9]

I'm 95% sure pimafix doesn't affect your cycle. Just test your water everyday. Also, I'd pull ur media from the fridge. That bacteria will survive in a warm wet place. Not sure how it would do with the cold. I think it may lessen it. Sounds like your on a good track!! Just remember if your levels are up you can do a bigger water change before you dose your pimafix for the day!!

Pulling media from fridge now...

Tested today:
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrites: 0ppm
Nitrates: 10ppm

The 2nd guppy isn't looking good. I suspect he'll be gone by tomorrow morning. Sigh.

I feel like a fish killer. It's so weird - they were all doing just fine until two days ago. I don't know what happened.

 

[hcourts]

Keep your head up!! I murdered four bettas firth thing!! I would just continue treatment if she passes though just to make sure

 

[callisto9]

Fish #2 is dead.

So that makes four dead guppies out of six in less than two months.

There are two left and I'm pretty sure they will die, too. They both seem kinda off and one looks like he's less "blue" than he used to be, if that makes any sense.

I got all of these from PetSmart. Could they have all been sick to begin with? I don't think so. Has to be something that happened here. They were all healthy when I brought them home.

Once the other two die (and I'm sure they will), I'm going to try some fish from my LFS. See if that goes any better. But honestly, if it doesn't, then I might just give up. I don't want to keep bringing home little souls to kill. I got guppies 'cause I heard they were hardy and easy (easier) to keep. So far, not so good.

I'm really discouraged.

 

[hcourts]

Don't be discouraged!! I know my petco had to stop getting them for a while bc they were all coming in sick it will be ok

 

[emerald76]

Never rinse your media with Tap water
It will kill all the bacteria and in turn the fish

 

[callisto9]

Never rinse your media with Tap water
It will kill all the bacteria and in turn the fish

I am wondering if this is what did them in. I DID rinse the filter media with tap water, quite thoroughly. I was trying to get all that extra gunk off.

So, if all my fish die, and I think they're going to, what's the next step before I attempt this again?

 

[callisto9]

Don't be discouraged!! I know my petco had to stop getting them for a while bc they were all coming in sick it will be ok

I really do think it was something I did. I just need to figure out what.

 

[callisto9]

Here's something else I've been thinking about; if you're supposed to take the filter media OUT when dosing with something like PimaFix, how is that any worse than rinsing off the filter media with tap water?

I've been reading and reading and reading and everything I want to learn about has two answers, both of which seem to be in direct opposition to one another. I was trying to read about rinsing the filter media and some people say tap water is OK (and they've been doing it for years) and others say rinse in tank water (that's out of the tank, obviously). The beneficial bacteria are obviously in other places in the tank (not just the filter), why would rinsing it off harm the fish? Is that ONE DROP of anti-chlorination stuff really protecting the entire gallon of water I top off with? Don't get me wrong, I use it, but it just seems odd...

I've also read you should change the filter, and read you should not change the filter - just rinse it off (and then, see debate above).

I've read you can treat with salt, but you can/can't use it with a snail in the tank.

AND, if rinsing my filter media off with tap water did cause my fish to die, why are my readings OK? I mean my nitrates were 10ppm, but what level can kill fish?

The more I read about meds and fish illness...it just seems so impossible to try and figure out what illness a fish has and what to put in the water.

Sorry all... just thinking out loud...