unhappy goldfish fry

[zenkatydid]

i have a 1 year old fantail goldfish fry in a 2 gallon tank along with a fern to act as a filter. i also normally do 50% water changes weekly, but have been lax recently as we've been moving house. the little guy is also deformed - his mouth is kinda to one side and he's got an odd-shaped belly, but he's always been like this. he's about 2cm long.

the last few days he hasn't been looking so good. right now he seems to be hanging vertically in the bottom corners a lot, head down. he still swims around occasionally, but seems labored - it seems almost difficult to get to the surface of the water. could this be water quality-related? i did a water change yesterday when i realised i had skipped a week, and he seemed to really perk up after that, but today is back to being head down. what else could it be? i hope his deformities aren't catching up with him

 

[Menagerie]

Between the deformities and the lack of room he may be giving up. Goldfish need a minimum of 10 gallons each--no matter how small they are now. A small tank will stunt the external and internal growth of any fish and reduce the life time expectancy. Goldies also need a serious filter that will turn over the water 10 X gph of the tank. At one year, he should be well past the fry stage and into adulthood. You need to get the exact numbers of the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels to see if water quality issues are also playing a role.

 

[jsoong]

Agreed with above. A one year old is no longer a fry & what you are seeing is likely a water quality problem.

To manage a goldy in a 2 gal bowl will require a minimum of 50% water change every DAY. You should be checking your water parameters for a guide. Until you have some test numbers, I would suggest doing daily pwc to see if things improves.

The odd shaped belly + swimming problems might be congenital, or it might be due to long term poor water quality (ie dropsy). Prognosis for either is not good.

 

[Zagz]

I agree with what has been said so far. I have a goldie tank and my filters are running 20x water turnover. I also do water changes twice a week as goldies are very messy fish. Do get exact readings on your parameters and do a water change after your test.

 

[zenkatydid]

he's just so tiny - less than 2cm. he's only just started to develop a bit of colouring, before now he was colourless.

however, i was never planning on keeping him in the small tank, but it was a good size for a tiny fry, and at the moment i have nowhere else to put him. once we're moved, he will be going into either my 2ft (17gal) tank or a 4ft (48gal) tank.

i've done more than 50% water changes the last two days and he always swims around looking happy for the rest of the day, but the next morning not happy again. i'll continue with this for as long as it takes.

if it is dropsy, what medicine is safe to use on him?

edit: i've just tried to upload a pic of him to my gallery but can't find the upload - how do i do this?

 

[Menagerie]

Photo upload Qs answered here.

 

[jsoong]

2cm for a one year old is really small. My one year olds are more like 5 or 6. The small size may be partly a result of poor water.

I would not reach for meds as the first treatment for dropsy (or any other fish ailments). First & foremost, clean water is a must. Once you get the water perfect, then you can think about meds. I would not treat for dropsy without a firm diagnosis, as it is quite involved & stressful for the fish. And you are more likely to do harm than good treating blindly.

Read this on dropsy in golds for more info & treatment options:
http://www.mu.edu/~buxtoni/puregold/disease/symptom/byname.htm#dropsy

 

[zenkatydid]

i picked up some melafix today in case, but as you advise, won't use it yet. with the water changes i've done over the last few days, i think the water must be mostly new water with hardly any waste left. i'll do another one day.

reading the info on dropsy, i don't think that's it - he isn't swollen up at all, except for the bulge that he's always had (but since he's still a little see-through, i can see that the bulge is an organ inside that seems deformed, rather than a bloat).

yesterday after the water change he was still hanging tail-up, but this morning he seems to be swimming around more - yay!

thanks for the photo link - have uploaded a pic of him

 

[jsoong]

Looked at the picture .... that's sure one abnormal looking gold.

That certainly does not look like dropsy, more like some kind of tumor. Golds are rather inbred & have a high incidence of congenital disorders. Usually a breeder will cull out all the obvious problems at 6 weeks or so of age, but there is always a chance that some will slip through. Looking at that pic, I'd say some kind of congenital problem is most likely.

To determine the likelyhood of sucessfully treating this, some history is in order. How long have you had the fish, how big was he then & has he grown at all in the mean time. How long have you noticed the lump? Typical tumors grows slowly over months, sudden appearance of this lump might point to something else <parasites, tb, worms?>. Are all his fins accounted for? Maybe this is an ingrown ventral or anal fin. Also, look at the fish from the top - is the spine bent?

Also, is he eating & pooping? What are you feeding him & what is the poop like? It is possible that the lump is affecting digestion or swimbladder function, giving the balance problems.

I would suggest trying a laxative first. It's simple & will do no harm. The easiest on the fish would be peas. Blanch a couple of peas, shell & chop up into bits & feed to your golds. This acts as a mild laxative & might be all that is needed. <You should feed peas/veggies to golds regularly to prevent problems at any rate.> Next would be Epsoms salt (MgSO4). You can add 1/8 teaspoon per 5 gal of water and keep him in it for a few days. More aggressive still would be a salt dip of 3% NaCl for up to 30 min <watch fish & remove at first sign of trouble!>

If purging the fish doesn't help, then you might consider antibiotics/anti-parasitics on the off chance that the lump is infectious in origin. If the fish is deformed from birth, there is not much you can do ..... The best you can do is to maintain clean water & feed lots of veggies to keep the gut moving past the deformity. Ocassionally, golds with benign tumors will live & grow for quite sometime. More often, prognosis for tumors are not so good.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Well said by jsoong. That definitley is not normal.

 

[zenkatydid]

I have had him since birth - a pet shop I worked in briefly had a batch of fry. My boss killed most of them by overfeeding before I could get to them, and I managed to save a few dozen. This guy is the last remaining survivor.

He's had the funny shaped belly since he started turning into a fish-shaped thing from a fry-shaped thing. It hasn't grown or changed shape in comparison with his growth. To me it appears to be an internal organ that is in the wrong spot, or enlarged. All his fins are healthy and accounted for. His spine is straight. However, his mouth is off-centre - but appears to be able to open and close correctly and he has no trouble eating. He is eating and pooping, I am feeding him HBH "Fry Bites". Previously I was feeding every day but I have dropped back to every couple days at the moment as I don't want to pollute the water if he's not getting to it all.

I'm not really worried about the lump (maybe I should be?) since he's always had it, and seemed to be able to eat and poop normally, I just figured it was a physical rather than functional abnormality.

Apart from the tail-up floating, his behaviour is otherwise normal, so from what I've read, it seems to be to be swim-bladder related. Would salt help that? I can do that, or I can do melafix. I'll do the pea thing too, just in case. I feel like I should be doing something other than cleaning a lot to fix his floating problem

 

[jsoong]

From your story, I'd say this is a congenital deformity. I would think that antibiotics/antiparasitics will prob do more harm than good. Unfortunately, I can think of nothing you can do to cure that. The best you can do is to maintain good water condition and relieve symptoms.

One thing I might try is to switch food. Golds are more vegeterian than other tropicals & don't do well on tropical foods. I don't think the fry-bites with extra fat & protein would be too good for them. It is possible that the fish is getting an enlarged fatty liver from too high a fat content. I'd switch to a gold fish pellet (sinking baby pellets preferably) & see if there is any improvement. <At any rate, golds are no longer fries after 6-8 weeks & should get on with adult food, with lots of veggies.>

The floating problem is swimbladder related, likely because it is being compressed by the deformity. However, air in gut from improper diet may cause floating as well. Also, constipation can also cause SB obstruction in fancy golds.

As for salt, you can try a low level (0.1%) and see if this makes a difference. Some have noticed a little salt helps in relieving stress when goldies are sick, and there is no harm in trying.