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Old 09-04-2015, 02:56 PM   #1
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Exclamation Upside down Crayfish/Blue Lobster - HELP NEEDED!!

Hi All.
Hoping someone can shed some light on what's up with my Blue Lobster/Crayfish. Essentially she's been mostly on her back for the last approx'. 6 weeks!?
She has been eating and occasionally looks as if she is trying to turn over to no avail. She also has had 2 or 3 successful molts previously with no issues.
I've included a video and will include as much detail as possible below...

Had her for approx. 8 mths+. She is currently in a Juwel 350 tank = around 50-60 Gallons. Current levels PH 7.2. KH 180. GH 500. NO3 25. NO2 0 Ammonia 0. Temp = approx 26 degrees. tank's been set up for a few weeks now and includes an internal filter ( not sure on model though ) and has plenty of oxygen.

She was happily in a slightly smaller tank until 3 weeks ago that unfortunately cracked and needed replacing. The 'upside down' problem started in that tank and has continued since.

Currently in the tank are a Pleco about 3 inches ( they get along fine ) 6 x Barbs a Clown Loach 2 inches and a Ghost Knife who's around 3 inches.

I have two tanks so used water from the other tank plus new to fill the tnak that the Cray is currently in. I would usually do a 20-30% water change every week to two weeks tops.

I have been adding iodine weekly + the chap in the local aquarium store recommended adding table salt too although I'm not sure on that one?

She has been eating pellets along with tuna, kale, the occasional algae wafer and bits of flak from feeding the others. This is all stuff she would previously eat before the problem started.

Will happily provide more info if needed anything that might be able to shed some light on whats up with her
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:12 PM   #2
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I want going to think the tank was cycled but since you added old water that could be the nitrate reading you are getting.

Do you know about the nitrogen cycle?

I'd do a water change just in case and forget about the salt.

Also there is some stocking deficiencies in here like the clown loach and ghost knife. Both get very large and need a very large tank.

Problems in molting usually occurs due to water quality. If he has been constantly on his back for 6 weeks unable to molt he may be on his last leg.


Caleb
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:36 PM   #3
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Hi Caleb. Thanks for the reply .

I do check the water levels regularly and they've always been fine however I do fear the worst. Do you think the problem is molting related then?

I'm not overly familiar with the nitrogen cycle however I'm sure a quick google search will help fill any gaps in my knowledge!

I did upload a video but for some reason it doesn't appear to have been included in the post??

Re' the clown loach and ghost knife I was aware they can both grow quite large. They do have plenty of room at the moment and if needed in future a larger tank can be purchased.

Aaron
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:43 PM   #4
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Hi Caleb. Thanks for the reply .

I do check the water levels regularly and they've always been fine however I do fear the worst. Do you think the problem is molting related then?

I'm not overly familiar with the nitrogen cycle however I'm sure a quick google search will help fill any gaps in my knowledge!

I did upload a video but for some reason it doesn't appear to have been included in the post??

Re' the clown loach and ghost knife I was aware they can both grow quite large. They do have plenty of room at the moment and if needed in future a larger tank can be purchased.

Aaron

The nitrogen cycle is very important, probably one of the most important things to know when keeping an aquarium. Here is a "summary" of cycling I use for social media:

What is cycling? Cycling is short the Nitrogen Cycle. Basically, bacteria live in your tank, they are what consumes waste so it doesn't become toxic and harm your fish. But your filter does not just "come with bacteria" right out of the box! This is where cycling comes in.

Why is cycling important? Many people have said "well I didn't cycle and my fish are just fine!" Well that's because most of those people have very hardy fish like bettas, guppies, etc, they can rough it through a cycle without issue.

Where does bacteria live? Let's make this really simple: 97%=filter 2%=substrate 1% water, decor, and plants. Basically, your filter is the home of all the bacteria you care about.

Where does bacteria come from and how do I grow it? This is the miracle of nature and science. I can't tell you specifically "where" bacteria comes from, only because I don't know. What I do now is how to grow bacteria, otherwise known is cycling a tank.

What you need to cycle a tank:
1. LIQUID test kit- I will stress this till the day I die. Test strips are junk. Liquid looks expensive but in reality you save a bunch of money because it can do 200+ tests for $10 more than a 25 pack of strips. I mean who wouldn't snag that deal?? You MUST have a test kit that you can get actual numbers from or else cycling will be near impossible without trips to the store for them to do it.

2. An ammonia source. This can be produced in a variety of ways. Fish obviously is the first method, this is the path of FISH-IN cycling. Simple right? Other sources include 10% grade ammonia from the hardware store, this is only a couple bucks. You can use uncooked shrimp from the grocery store and put it in a pantyhose so it doesn't make a mess. Or plain fish food is fine too but not as effective sometimes. These sources are used for a FISHLESS cycle.

Why do we need an ammonia source? This is what begins cycling. Ammonia is what feeds your bacteria to where they can reproduce and allows you to continue through the nitrogen cycle.

Enough questions let's get on with it:

Fishless cycling: this is really easy method, but you have an empty tank. On the flip side, you can do whatever adjustments you want to it so when you get fish it's perfect. If you are dosing ammonia by the bottle: shoot for 3ppm-4ppm. Google can provide a dosing calculator so you can know just how much to dose for your tank size. If you are using a table shrimp, just throw it in, it will naturally boost the ammonia and you just add a new shrimp when the other has decomposed. Now you want to use your test kit to measure how much ammonia you need to dose, it's simple math once you know how much makes 3ppm.

Fish-in cycling: This is where it can get tricky. Because you have fish you need to keep them safe. During a cycle, this will require daily testing and quite possibly daily water changes. You want to keep ammonia under 1ppm and nitrite under 0.50ppm if possible as both are highly toxic to fish.

Both cycles: in the beginning you will see ammonia start to rise, over time, the bacteria will overcome this and in a fishless you will need to start dosing daily(bottled ammonia) as time goes on. From there you will move to nitrites. Once you hit nitrites this is the longest phase. One day you will wake up and nitrites will be gone and you will be left with nitrAtes. Nitrates is the final product of the nitrogen cycle and is non toxic in lower levels. This is then removed through your weekly water changes.

Once the cycle is completed you should not see any signs on ammonia and nitrites, because now your tank is cycled.

Bacterial supplements: please understand these are a game of chance. They don't always work, sometimes they do nothing. Just know, I have NEVER seen one of these fully complete a cycle, only give a jump start. Please keep that in mind that just because you dump a bottle in doesn't mean your tank cycled..



Caleb
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:43 PM   #5
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Upside down - video

I'm hoping this will include the video of the her upside down currently...
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:59 PM   #6
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Ok so that's amazing help

So am I right in saying that the water change will bring the Nitrate level down and should help?

Do you think that's what could be responsible??

Apologies as for some reason the selected video does not appear to be uplading for some reason. Choose file > submit reply > nothing!!
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Old 09-04-2015, 04:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Wrena View Post
Ok so that's amazing help



So am I right in saying that the water change will bring the Nitrate level down and should help?



Do you think that's what could be responsible??



Apologies as for some reason the selected video does not appear to be uplading for some reason. Choose file > submit reply > nothing!!

Yes think of it this way:

Say your nitrates are 40ppm.

By doing a 50% water change you bring them down to 20ppm because you are taking half of the water out which in turn removed half of the nitrates.

I would say an uncycled tank could be partially responsible for his troubles.

You can upload your video to YouTube then post the link here just make sure the video is public so we can view it. You can also upload pictures as an alternative.


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Old 09-04-2015, 06:18 PM   #8
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Ok well that makes sense .

Here is the YT link :-

http://youtu.be/WVrd2_GlOto

You say that the uncycled tank could be to blame but she was like this in the previous tank which she had been fine in for months until this started??

Aaron
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Old 09-04-2015, 07:53 PM   #9
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He looks pretty weak.. It sounds obvious but I don't remember seeing it mentioned.. Have you tried just flipping him over?


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Old 09-04-2015, 09:21 PM   #10
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was just about to say that , it's been upside down how long ,
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Old 09-05-2015, 04:58 AM   #11
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She's been like this for about 6 weeks now - was completely fine before. I fed her by hand at the moment.

I have tried turning her over and here's a link to a video of how that went...

http://youtu.be/7rFPemmR2Hw

After a fairly thorough investigation it looks as if the problem could be with the claw that appears to be 'twitching'?

Here's a video of what she looked like turned over. Seems to be a problem with her claw??

http://youtu.be/7rFPemmR2Hw
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Old 09-09-2015, 05:21 AM   #12
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Here's another video if anyone can help...

Placed her down and she definitely seems to be moving a little awkwardly and eventually flips herself over onto her back again???

http://youtu.be/6V0VWmmnPXk

Would really appreciate any help
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Old 07-11-2016, 05:41 PM   #13
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Hi. Whatever happened to your upside-down crayfish? Ours just started doing the same thing. Thank you for posting the videos. We have been trying to figure out what is going on but ours looks exactly like yours did. This is the third day of being upside-down but I noticed that he was not using his right side claw for two days prior. I would appreciate any insight.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:43 PM   #14
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Hi. Well I'm afraid to say that we lost her in the end however she spent approx. 3 months on her back if I recall. What I didn't know then that I know now is that iodine is important and I know dose my tank following each change - we have had a new cray for sometime now. I believe it was down to a failed or problematic moult which is where the iodine comes in as it helps with the moulting process. As its only been a few days it might be worth picking some up if you haven't any and adding some to the tank. Let me know how you get on.
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:13 AM   #15
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Thank you for your response. I'm pretty sure our guy isn't going to pull through. The difference I noticed right away is that in your videos, your crayfish was still mobile while on her back. Ours seems too weak to move much at all. We've had him for about eight weeks and he has successfully molted twice already. We had our water tested today and all levels are fine, though I might as well try iodine. We are upset to think he is suffering. He started out as a classroom pet. We don't know much about him, so I'd like to think he is just old and had a good life.
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Old 07-12-2016, 06:41 AM   #16
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Sorry to hear that :-( never nice to see. I would try iodine and also maybe try hand feeding some algae tablets or I've got this 'fun tips' I think they're called that stick to the tank for the fish to feed on but our current cray loves them plus I think they're a pretty 'complete' food so maybe try offering your guy one of those?
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