URGENT help with Ich

[jlk]

Thats good news that your seeing improvement! You can either continue on the course your on or switch to salt-up to you. I am sorry to hear about your ranchu and would not jump to euthanasia yet. Lets see he he can recover first (unless you feel he is suffering). I can not make any guarentees here but I will keep my fingers crossed for you!

 

[Princess1982]

Thanks JLK. Is it normal for fish to become floaty with white spot? I have just come home and he is still alive (just) but can't seem to swim down from the surface. He is only using one fin, the other is clamped against his body but even if he gets half way down he bobs straight back up to the top. Or is this somthing else??

 

[jlk]

Normal? Def not unless damage from ich caused an internal infection. One of his swim bladder lobes is overinflated & its causing him to float like a bobber. If he starts to regulate pressure it on his own, he will recover. If he is unable to due to damage and/or internal infection, he may not. A vet may be able to provide intervention if this is an option for you. If not, I would still be hesitant on euthanasia at this point. Ultimately, it will be your decision (and I know its a tough one to make ).

 

[Princess1982]

I have just had a closer look at the ranchu and his gills look swollen and blood red. He is missing a lot of scales from his back ( I knew this before just thought he had rubbed against an ornament) and there is a small red patch where a scale used to be. He also looks like he has a bit of fluff on his back. One of his eyes looked totally black (I only noticed after I bought him) but in the light it looks almost cloudy. I am hoping that this is white spot and I haven't mis diagnosed! There is definietly a light sprinkle of white spots all over the other fishes bodies. Could the ranchu have something different?

 

[jlk]

It sounds like he has an internal infection- whether it was caused by ich damage or something else, I dont know. Is a vet for him a possibility? He needs real meds if he is going to have any chance of recovery and I know you need script to purchase anything where you reside. Short term, you can try giving him bathes of epsom salt mixed with methylene blue.

 

[Princess1982]

could parasite guard work?

 

[jlk]

I know your products are not the same as here in the US. What are the active ingredients?

 

[Princess1982]

Active ingredients in parasite guard: praziquantel, difluben-zuron, metronidazole, acriflavine. It claims to treat all external and internal parasites and protects against internal infections.

 

[jlk]

Thanks! Do you have somewhere you can try to treat him seperately? You cant add this to your right now with everything else in it & ich issue happening. The metro in it would be of the most help. Prazi will treat flukes if he has them. Acriflavine is mildly antibacterial & may be some help. The difluben is an insecticde. I would opt for this rather than not treating.

 

[Princess1982]

Well I can move in in with the 54 litre with the pleco or I can set up a bowl. That's all I have now. The pleco is already quite upset. He hasn't eaten since I moved him to the 54 litre by himself. 2 days now he has been refusing food. I don't know if it is because he is unhappy with the new tank or because he is really sick. I would rather not put the ranchu in with the pleco if he will make the pleco ill.

I have just done a 50% water change in both tanks. Added only water conditioner to the pleco tank which is now at 30 degrees. Added salt at 0.3 as advised. Temp is 26 degrees.

 

[jlk]

Do you have a 5g bucket or empty plastic storage bin? You could stick him in this with with a bubbler/airstone & medicate him & do daily water change. As I said, I am not making any guarentees here. He sounds quite ill but I think its always worth atleast trying before deciding otherwise.

The pleco is sick from the ich med you used- hopefully he will recover on his own. Just make sure he has lots of healthy water.

 

[Princess1982]

I will see what I can do with the ranchu. Frankly I will be surprised if he makes it til the morning. He really doesn't look too good. :-(

Also very worried about the pleco now. Do plecos normally recover from such things? It was only 2 treatments over 4 days. I thought he was just upset because moved him. He was eating still up until I moved him. :-(

Thanks for your help as always.

 

[jlk]

Well, the issue is using malachite green with scaleless fish at full doses is they absorb it easily. It winds up in their organs (namely liver), tissues, etc as its processed in their body. And, unfortuntaely, its toxic & it builds up with repeated doses. I forget exactly how long it takes for it to leave their bodies but it takes a long time (as in wks). He may have 'seemed' ok before moving him but I know you mentioned he wasnt acting like himself. I suspect he is feeling the effects of it now. All you can really do is hope for the best. I wish I could offer something better

 

[Princess1982]

Well thank you for being honest. I guess I shall just have to keep a watchful eye.

How often would you recommend w/c now in both tanks and do I need to replace the salt in the larger tank when doing w/c's? Will adding salt at 0.1 to the plecos tank do any good? Someone mentioned it on another forum saying it is supportive but Iam reluctant to add anything more unless I know it will help.

 

[jlk]

Watch your parameters. I would suggest wcs every other day or so as long as everything is stable. More often if theres an issue. Your good bacteria may not be happy about the salt so keep a close eye on the goldie tank. Ill be honest, I am not sure if I add would add anything to the plecos tank at this point. He is already dealing with the bad stuff in his body & I am honestly not sure if adding another chemical, even a relatively harmless one such as salt, will be a good idea. My take anyway- maybe someone has a better idea. Good luck!!

 

[Princess1982]

I agree, think I will just try to keep my plecos tank as clean as possible and hope the meds come out of his system soon.
I will test the water daily as he is in an uncycled tank and change thw water as necessary.
Thanks for your input.

 

[jlk]

How is everyone doing today?

 

[Princess1982]

HI JLK. I woke up this morning and my ranchu had passed away. Upsetting but I am not surprised. Ihave just come home from work and they are all alive but there is a lot of bottom sitting and clamped fins going on. Water is 26 degrees in the goldie tank with an extra water stone. Water parameters are fine so I wont do a water change today, will do one tomorrow and will get more salt to keep the salinity at 0.3. The pleco still hasn't eaten but is alive. Again sat on the bottom of the tank, wont even go in his house, He does get very upset if I ever move him so I'm hoping it is partly that and not that he is really sick. Is there anything that I have missed that I can do for either tank?

Two of my fish have a lot more spots that the others - I have never seen so many spots EVER. I haven't even been able to google a fish with Ich that has more spots than these fish. They must have it really badly. And the white moor's tail is now covered n blood red streaks and i think it is starting to tear a bit. Is this an infection now or could it be due to the high ammonia spike in the last tank?

 

[Princess1982]

Just took a couple of the fish out to take pictures to put on here and the red streaks in the white moor's tail are also accompanied by angry red blotches where scales used to be. I'm not an expert but after looking at pictures of hemorrhagic septicemia online it looks exactly the same! My ranchu had the same when he died this morning! My phone wont allow me to upload the pictures on here for some reason. :-( My LFS does stock an antibitoic treatment which treats swimbladder but they claim also bacterial infections. Does this sound right to you??? I will go and get some after work tomorrow. This is just going from bad to worse :-(

 

[jlk]

I am so sorry

Can you possibly post pics of the fish that are the worst including the moor? I just want to make sure nothing else is going on here. I suspect the red streaking is from the high ammonia (classic symptom) but with the sick ranchu, I hoping nothing was spread from him. I am really sorry your having such a tough go right now! Hopefully, everyone will improve quickly!!