fish identification

[IndyReef]

Reefrunner and I are having a running debate on the "name that fish" section that would probably be beneficial to everyone.

I'll summerize and, RR, feel free to correct anything if i misspeak on your behalf.

The question really centers around the coloration of the fish. The fish is certainly a type of clownfish and is also certainly a type of Amphiprion. The debate that we are having is which type of Amphiprion. On my site i have a pic of my own clown fish. you can view this as the first attachment below.

The confusuing part is that my fish was sold to me as a Tomato clown (Amphiprion frenatus). The question is on the coloration of the obviously, adult sized fish. I have two more attachemnts below from my reference materials describing the various sections of the Amphiprion. My fish has a darker coloration in the face than would normally be for a Amphiprion frenatus.

My real look into the fish is looking at it's mouth. if you look at the first pic and look at the mouth of the fish, and compare it to the second pic you can see that the second pic, or the Amphiprion frenatus, has a more frown, or upside down smile than that of the Amphiprion melanopus.

if you then look at the picture (bottom) of my fish, you will see that mine has a very deep "un-smiley".

My fish also has a blue stripe at the edge of the white stripe.


RR, did us all a favor at the beginning and didnt add in the Amphiprion frenatus as a choice which made it pretty easy. He added it after our conversation which should make the poll very difficult. I cant really tell if the fish in the "name that fish" has a blue out line or not.

The point of discussing all this is a point well made by RR in our private conversation which is that no online or otherwise retailer is going to take the time to properly ID these fish. And as you look at the fish this close in still frames, imagine how hard it is to ID the moving thing.

The last attachement is of the mate i bought for my clown fish. It is of a juvenile version that was hand raised locally and sold to me as a Amphiprion frenatus.

Clown fish are very territorial. You do not want to add another clown to your tank if it is a different species, and you have to be careful within the same to make sure you are making a matching pair. The behavior of my two fish suggests t me that they are the same type. They swim together and sleep together.

i hope this is helpful and it goes to show that things arent always as they seem.

Indy

[IndyReef]

okay the pics posted in the wrong order and left one out.

sheesh

below is the last one i refered to.

[reefrunner69]

Well, I'm not sure any of this matters all that much....I was just looking at a site about Anemone fish and their host anemones. The simple fact is, according to them they appear to be distinguishable once they have attained adult coloration. Where the fish pictured is not a juvenile, I would not consider it adult either. It is most likely adolescent.the fish was approx 2"-2.5" in length excluding the tail.

Here is a quote from that site....
Anemone fishes and ther host Sea Anemones

Originally Posted by Anemone fishes and ther host Sea Anemones

AMPHIPRION FRENATUS BREVOORT, 1856

Tomato Anemonefish

Original description: As Amphiprion frenatus, from specimens collected at Japan

Colour features and size: Adults with a single white head bar; females mainly blackish on sides with red snout, breast, belly, and fins; males considerably smaller than females and lacking blackish colouration -- being instead red overall; juveniles with two or three white bars. Maximum length about 140 mm.

Similar species: Amphiprion rubrocinctus (northwestern Australia) is very similar in colouration, but its white bar lacks the distinctive black outline of A. frenatus; the bar in females is poorly developed, has an irregular outline, and is sometimes discontinuous on top of the head; the smaller male generally has blackish sides. Small juveniles of A. frenatus and A. rubrocinctus are very difficult to separate; because they do not have overlapping distributions, geography is the best means of distinguishing them. Amphiprion melanopus (western Pacific) is also similar, but generally has a broader white head bar and specimens from most areas (except eastern Melanesia) have black pelvic and anal fins.

Host anemone: Entacmaea quadricolor

Melanistic variation: Only that related to sex as described above.

Distribution: South China Sea and immediately adjacent areas, northwards to Japan.

Originally Posted by Anemone fishes and ther host Sea Anemones

AMPHIPRION MELANOPUS BLEEKER, 1852

Red and Black Anemonefish

Original description: As Amphiprion melanopus, from specimens collected at Ambon (Molucca Islands, Indonesia)

Colour features and size: Adults usually black on sides with reddish snout, belly, dorsal fin, and tail (sometimes pale yellow); pelvic and anal fins usually black; a single relatively broad white bar on head. Some individuals from the Coral Sea lack head bar; fish from the Fiji Islands and southeastern Polynesia entirely red except for white head bar; those from the Solomon Islands, Vanuatu, and New Caledonia have reduced black patch on the side. Maximum length about 120 mm.

Similar species: In the normal adult colouration, the black pelvic and anal fins easily distinguish A. melanopus from the other single-barred, red-finned species, A. frenatus (South China Sea to Japan) and A. rubrocinctus (northwestern Australia). However, Fijian and southeastern Polynesian specimens are readily confused with the red males of A. frenatus. The best means of separation is the pronounced black border on the margins (particularly the rear one) of the white head bar in A. frenatus, which is lacking in A. melanopus.

Host anemone species: Usually Entacmaea quadricolor; occasionally Heteractis crispa; rarely H. magnifica

Melanistic variation: None except variation between "normal" dark colour phase and red "Fijian" phase noted above.

Distribution: Indonesia (Bali westward), Melanesia, Micronesia, southeastern Polynesia, and Great Barrier Reef - Coral Sea.

[reefrunner69]

So now my question is, what color are your female clown fishes pelvic and anal fins? Because from the pics posted the white bar/stripe looks pretty wide on the female and the new addition....

[IndyReef]

well you can see anal in this pic

[reefrunner69]

Actually, I can't But if you will tell me, I will believe you, I'm not trying to say your clown is not an A. frenatus, but the descriptions above kinda didn't even mention the blue coloration we we were discussing