Yet another sump thread! Yea!

[Smitty]

Howdy!

In preparation for my new 90g tank I am trying to nail down my sump. I'm going to use my old 55g tank as the sump. I will be building my own stand once I have all the preliminary measurements down to make sure I'm fine with height/etc. I appreciate any advice.

Keep in mind that after my tank is established (8-10 months) I would love to get a mandarine. I'm would like to setup my sump now to help support that future growth. Here is what I have thought of (using paint!):

In the thought of future growth for pods I can make the live rock rubble section 16" wide and the skimmer section 8" wide. I can also adjuster other things if I need a larger return section.

I would also place two heaters in the return section, at least that is where I would think it would go. The return pump is a Mag 9.5. It is a custom made skimmer for a 125g tank.

Thanks!

 

[Just.A.Bit.Salty]

Looks like a good plan you have there. Look forward to your sump build as I will be doing the same in a couple weeks and watching others build theirs always helps. Also looking forward to some pics of the tank and your stand build. Good luck.

 

[mr_X]

you could put heaters in the intake, and/or skimmer sections too, as well as the sand bed section. the return section is the only place i wouldn't keep heaters due to it's constant fluctuation. also, you may get some microbubbles from the water toppling over the partition between the sand bed and the return area, depending on the gph going over there.

i would also put the skimmer in the intake section, not after the live rock. the reason is, i don't want to skim that water and the pods out of it. i would want the pods to have only 1 pump they'd have to get through in order to make it back to the display.

 

[Smitty]

Good idea Mr X. I think I will re-design it with the skimmer in the intake and move the live rock over. I actually designed it backwards as I wanted the return on the left side as the drain/return for the tank is on the left side of the tank. I'll also move the heaters to another part.

Hmmm... let me get to cracking on a 2nd design.

 

[Boiler Reef]

following along

 

[Smitty]

Ok, here is sump mark two. Wasn't sure how high the baffles should be so here is a guess at 14". The tank is around 19" tall so that should give plenty of room in case of the power going out. The bubble trap is 1.5" off the bottom in the middle and 1" apart.

EDIT: The drawing says check valves... I meant ball valves to adjust flow or close off the sump.

This will put the return closer to where it is in the tank so I can have it just about straight up/down. The intake into the sump will have to have some angles. Is it preferred this way, or better to have the intake straight down and the angles on the return? I do not know what the GPH is on the drain, it is a single down pipe that looked to be 1.5" in diameter but haven't measured it and the tank isn't at my house right now so I can't measure it.

 

[mr_X]

if it's 1.5" it's probably able to handle 1200gph or so.
i wouldn't add the check valves. they are not 100% effective. a little slime or feather duster or starfish in it and it will continue to leak.. you are better served planning the returns so that they break siphon quickly after a power outage.
also, the split to the DSB i would want with a ball valve, not a check valve.

 

[Smitty]

Ah you know what, I have ball valve in the first drawing and have check valve for the second. I meant ball valve for all. I had a 101.5 fever and was not doing well when doing that second drawing! The idea with the ball valves was to be able to close off the sump so they will stay in there, just labeled it wrong.

 

[Smitty]

Anyone have any thoughts on if the 14" tall baffles are good? Or if any should be higher/lower than others, like having the fuge walls at 16-17" since the only water going into it is from the pump and if the power goes out it won't overflow.

Also, I do plan to have macro in the fuge with a light... is it Chaeto?

I was also thinking of having the heaters with the skimmer instead of the live rock as if something needs to be adjuster I don't want to dig through the live rock to get at them.

 

[mr_X]

your partitions can be as tall as you want them, but you may have to build a stand to keep the skimmer in 8-10" of water. that's what i did-

 

[SAAVE853]

Since your designing from scratch do a little research and look into an algae turf scrubber (ATS). I just set mine up last night, but from what I have read it seems to have more advantage than keeping Chaeto and it's fairly simple to maintain & DIY.

Heres an idea for you that would use the same water to run your DSB and ATS using your same set-up.

 

[Smitty]

Yea, I had actually thought of it but decided in the end to not go that route right away. I very well may add it at a later date but since I'm moving into a new house and setting this up I only wanted to tackle what I know I can get done first (there are a lot of other things I need to do to the house as well) and then look at other options.

 

[David S]

I wouldn't have a ball valve on the drain from the tank to the sump,if you need to isolate the sump just turn off your return pump and as Doug has said just use a syphon break.

 

[Smitty]

Ok... I've been thinking about this and was worried that if I use the mag 9.5 split between going to the tank and going to the fuge I might now limit the GHP of the return pump. What do people think?

I was thinking of changing things around a bit to help in that respect. Here is a much simplified version of the sump.

Couple questions I have is where is the best place for the heater, in the intake or return section? The next is how much room do I have to give for the skimmer? The skimmer is 6" in diameter plus the pump. I would hope that 10" would be enough for the intake and skimmer. Also I wasn't sure about a bubble trap, I didn't think it would be good to have a waterfall right before the return pump so only have a single section of down, will this work?

Thanks!

 

[David S]

I dont think this setup will work to well,the fuge and LR section wont get much water flow with this setup,most of the flow will go straight over the separators.if you look in my profile it shows a sump which I had built a long time ago,you'll notice the cloud in one section showing no flow in that section.I personally would have the skimmer in the far left,the fuge in the far right and the return in the middle,the pipework from the DT should run to a T and then route to the skimmer section and the fuge section(run the pipework down below water level to remove moisture and splashing).have valves in these two pipes and adjust so about 30% goes to the fuge and the rest to the skimmer.have another baffle between the LR and the return section.Put the heaters in the skimmer section.If your worried about using too many bends on the return pipework then just use hose.

 

[Smitty]

That is a good idea to have the intake split in two and then have just the return going to the tank and not splitting the return to the tank and fuge. I like that idea.

It is better for the return to be straight up without bends or for the drain to be without bends? I can design it either way but would think that having the return without bends would give the most flow from the return pump.

 

[mr_X]

i think the above diagram will work fine. i would put the skimmer in the intake section and remove the partition between the ruubble section and the refugium section (rubble in the refugium won't hurt anything, and vice versa).
i have made plenty of sumps like that and never T'd off the return pump and all sections got the same amount of flow.
i would put heaters in the intake section with the skimmer.

 

[Smitty]

Ok... so as I am now building the sump I have another question. Is one section going to be better than others to be larger? I was thinking of 10" for the intake, 12" for live rock and fuge and 14" for return so that I would have a larger return section to help with evaporation. Does this sound good?

 

[mr_X]

i would like the refugium to be as large as possible. the intake section, just large enough to hold drain lines and the skimmer, and the return section can be just large enough to fit the return pump if you are implementing an auto top off.

 

[Smitty]

At some point I want an ATO but it is not in the budget right now, which is why I was looking at a larger return section. I can, however, make the fuge a little bigger now and the return a little smaller now as that would be a little better for the future.