Oceanic

[Hara]

Just to end this....frankly, it just seems like I took a $2000, plus *&^^%%$#$#.

Thanks for the offer of a letter Logan, and the support of the rest of you guys. I am going to get the retailer to write a statement and have it notarized, saying that HE bought the tank as new. Beyond that, I do not know what else to do except pray the thing does not leak.

The other point is if oceanic makes these virtually indestructable tanks, why on earth would someone ever have had to reseal it unless it was inferior from the factory. Not just one side, but both sides.

gee, live rock arrives tomorrow, lighting on Tuesday, somehow I am now less than thrilled.

[clownfish]

First course of action for just about any new product that is defective upon delivery is to go to the retailer. When was the last time you sent a coffee maker or toaster back to the manufacturer when it was defective right out of the box. No. You brought it back to the store; returned it. They said anything wrong. You said yeah, it's defective. They took it from there.

I mean come on. I'm not trying to stick up for the manufacturer here. But, let's use some common sense. Let's say for this discussion that the tank was tampered with at the distributor. Why should it be the manufacturers problem? It's the retailer (they should know better than to accept defective products from their supplier) & distributor's problem. Manufacturer delivered a perfectly fine product. To your point:

the customer should not be expected to know the history of the tank.

Right. The retailer, however should be expected to know the history.

it should be waranteed as new

No warantee that I know of covers tampered with or abused products. Again, this is a new product with problems "out of the box" It's the retailers responsibility.

With all that being said, corvuscorax may have to fight with the manufacturer if they get no relief from the retailer, but it's a tougher fight. The place to expend energy now is with the retailer. It's the right way to go, and therefore has the highest probability of success.

Corvuscorax, good luck and don't give up. You shouldn't have to make due with a defective product. Be persistent, professional and logical, you'll win the battle.

[michealprater]

With all that being said, corvuscorax may have to fight with the manufacturer if they get no relief from the retailer, but it's a tougher fight. The place to expend energy now is with the retailer. It's the right way to go, and therefore has the highest probability of success.

Corvuscorax, good luck and don't give up. You shouldn't have to make due with a defective product. Be persistent, professional and logical, you'll win the battle.

I think Hara was the one having the problem. But I agree, the retailer should be the first step. If they appreciate your buisness they will do everything in thier power to make it right. Also, if you are in a smaller city you could write a anonomous letter to the editor of a local paper. Ive seen that go along way.

[loganj]

Hmm...when we order stock at the store from ***** Pets or *****Supply, that's all we know....where we got it from. No other history is available to us. If we order a tank, and it comes in messed up, we send it back. If you buy a tank from us, and it leaks when you get it home, we'll take it back and give you another. The point I'm leading up to here is that these are normal practices. NOT NORMAL is to try to sell the screwed up tank anyway and hope the customer doesn't notice that the silicone was put on with a sheet rock knife. I feel like there have been shady dealings here on the part of either the wholesaler or the retailer. I think Oceanic should step in and replace the tank. Then they should get to the bottom of it. Oceanic is the one who has a dissatisfied customer. If they're smart, they'll do something about it. It's always cheaper in the long run to make the customer happy.
Logan J

[fishfreek]

If the problem is on the overflows and they area on both sides of the tank then I have to guess that it was either a manufacturing problem OR maybe at some point in time before it got to the retailer the back glass broke/cracked and instead of the distributor or middleman doing the correct thing and get the tank replaced they might have tried to fix it themselves.

If you look at the glass thickness does the back panel or any of the side panels vary in thickness from the other panels?

I doubt the tank will leak. The pics are hard to tell but it looks more like the silicon is slopped on there in excess vs not covering the seams.

[Hara]

You are right FF. First off, the tank was manufactured 18 months ago. It has changed hands twice before coming to me. Pet stores go out of business on a regular basis. There is no reason to suspect it has ever been set up before,(already mentioned condition of labels etc). Furthermore, if one side had a leak, it would be fixed...why on earth would anybody go slap silicone crazy on both overflow boxes just for the hell of it? The glass is all the same thickness. One other point is that the SAME sloppiness is in the sump and it was in the original
packaging..had to pull staples to get it out.

As far as the retailer goes, he has been more than helpful. Offered to,if at any time there is a leak, come do the resealing himself. I too, doubt the tank will leak. The whole original purpose was to point out the lack of workmanship to oceanic. They of course, deny all responsibility...after that, I was concerned about their warranty. I still am. They will stand behind their product up until the time they really have to.

[Hara]

Originally Posted by clownfish

I mean come on. I'm not trying to stick up for the manufacturer here. But, let's use some common sense.

Please do not be insulting..I use plenty of common sense. That common sense tells me there has never been a drop of water in the tank. That same common sense tells me that the inspector of tanks at oceanic was on crack that day and it never should have left the factory. It is common sense that tells me if someone pays this kind of money for a tank,
on the premise of a 5 year warranty, that tank needs to be warranteed.

[fishfreek]

Ah,

Maybe this is the first time you mentioned the sump was also like that. I had not seen that mentioned before.

That would indicate it was done at the manufacture then since the sump was still sealed in its original packaging how could it have gotten tampered with and then stapled back with out damaging the box.

[Hara]

I thought I had...anyway, it seemed secondary to the tank and I guess I forgot that.

[fishfreek]

Did you mention the sump to the CEO when you where talking? That sounds like obvious evidence that it was from the factory like that at least with the sump if it was never removed from the box prior to you getting it.

[Hara]

Sure, but the whole thing is this, this part is inspected by this guy, the stand by this person, the sump by another, the trim by yet another...if you admit culpability to just one issue, you must admit you have a problem with the inspection crew as well as those putting the stuff together.

My husband was the one that actually spoke with the CEO. I do not know if they
talked about the sump. The sump was mentioned in my emails to them though.

[clownfish]

First off didn't mean to be insulting. Know this is a tough situation. Just trying to direct the conversation back to a point where the problem could be solved.

If the problem is with both tanks and the sump was sealed than evidence is pointing more toward manufactuer. HOWEVER, as someone else said here your retailer should still take it back then return it to the manfactuer. Most distributers and Manufacters have processes for this sort of thing. Perhaps the member that works at lfs (forget who, right now) could comment better than I.

If the retailer is not willing to take it back or you really don't want to that route for another reason, then I still say you should recontact the company CEO. There was a reason he took time to call you in the first place. It was not to simply blow you off. If he wanted to do that and didn't care what you thought of his products or company he would have someone else call. That said, his call shows you still have room to work with them. I mean you spent 2k on a setup you should have a quality one. IMHO you shouldn't give up.

But again, good luck both with the tank and getting satisfication.

[Hara]

I would like to end this thread with the following report. An agreement has been reached between Oceanic and us. From the beginning, I never asked that they fix or replace the tank. From the beginning, all I wanted was their word that the warranty would be vailid *IF* anything should ever happen in the future 5 years.
Oceanic has agreed to do so.

On a side note: one of the things that facilitated this agreement was that someone from this board, took it upon himself to send to oceanic the entire set of conversations that has taken place. This, of course, was upsetting to them. Altho I can understand the concerns, the fact is this, in this internet world, people will express their opinions. Mine were not libilous, nor slanderous, they were a report of the facts as they took place. It is also something that all companies need to remember, in a short amount of time, a large number of people can learn of your experiences, both good and bad. This one has an agreeable ending, granted, the experience detracted from something in my life which should have been truly exciting but ended up tainted.

I am not sure how the owners of this board feel about conversations being repeated verbatim, if this bothers them, I am sure they will say something.

[reefrunner69]

Originally Posted by Aquarium Advice.com User Agreement

Any communication or material you post or transmit is, and will be treated as, non-confidential and non-proprietary. You assume full responsibility for anything you post or transmit, and you grant AquariumAdvice.Com the right to display this material on its web sites. AquariumAdvice.Com makes no ownership claims to any material you post or transmit and agrees that all submitted materials, text, graphics and files remain the sole property of their creator, with individual exceptions such as contest entries specifically labeled as such when solicited.

Since the material is not confidential, we have no problem with anyone copying this thread. Since the board is open, the CEO of Oceanic has the ability to join and view this thread...if he wishes to do so. It's not a secret, so I don't see a problem, I don't think anyone in the thread, said anything that could be considered liable. I wouldn't mind knowing who did it, so I could give them 50 kudos for helping you with your situation

[fishfreek]

I share the sentiments that Kevin does. Also I am glad you posted your resolution to the problem Hara.

And just like Kevin I have to say I do urge anyone from Oceanic at any time to post an 'official' comment on this thread should they feel it be approprate.

On a side note: one of the things that facilitated this agreement was that someone from this board, took it upon himself to send to oceanic the entire set of conversations that has taken place. This, of course, was upsetting to them. Altho I can understand the concerns, the fact is this, in this internet world, people will express their opinions.

In a moment of bad judgement, it was me who sent them the link.

I am truly sorry and will not do anything like that again.

I was furious, and over-stepped my boundaries, fo that I sincerly apologize.

However, they need to know that word will get around, and I showed them proof that it will.

Still, it was NOT my place to do so, and am very sorry.

For the record, I STILL believe they should be falling all over themselves to give you an exchange for a new, properly constructed tank, instead of basically coming up with lame excuses and blowing you off. You spent 2 grand, they could have rplaced it for like 500 bucks outta their pocket. Thats a no brainer for goodwill purposes.

Sorry,

Paul

[reefrunner69]

You spent 2 grand, they could have rplaced it for like 500 bucks outta their pocket. Thats a no brainer for goodwill purposes.

Not even 500, they could have simply resealed the tank, a little labor and $10.00 worth of silicone. Whether you over stepped your bounds is between you and Hara, I really appreciate that you care enough about the members on this site to get mad enough to do that.

[loganj]

I'm also glad that the situation has been resolved. I'm not sure it would always be a good idea to forward conversations like this one to a manufacturer, but it certainly had the desired effect this time. I have two other thoughts on this subject. 1) This proves to Oceanic (and the members of this site) that we will stand together behind any member who has been wronged and take whatever actions are necessary to right the situation. 2) That Corvuscorax is a person of unusual integrity because he cared enough to take action to resolve the problem and admitted to doing it even though there was a chance that someone would have been upset about it. Not many people would have had the nerve or conviction to do either. JMHO.
Logan J

[Hara]

Paul,
Thanks so much for saying that you were responsible for the note. No harm was done, in fact, it forced a resolution to the situation. I had said to them, in one of my emails, that I would be discussing the situation with online reefing friends.

I am glad to know that the intent was a noble one instead of one spiked with malice. Think no more about it and thanks again for having the courage to say you had sent the message.

[clownfish]

Hara, thanks for the update. I'm glad the situation was resolved to your satisfaction. That was, after all, the only important outcome.

Have fun with your new setup. I'm sure (or I hope) you won't let this incident detract from the enjoyment your new setup will provide.