People that don't listen. . .

[Scottw68TN]

Change water but don't gravel vac. I kept mine at .5 just to be sure there was ammonia for the critters to eat and survive. It will cycle fast but it will be months before your water cycle is assured stability.

It will cycle fast but it will be months before your water cycle is assured stability.

Right on!

[Mr502go]

Originally Posted by sweetsuvvyb

I just wanted to say to Mr 502...you're doing a great job with your fish.

Please don't get discouraged by a couple setbacks, or negative experiences. I think it's important we recognize someone that's doing their research, and learning, and trying, because it's far too easy to just not bother.

Keep up the good work!

You don't know what that means to me Sweets, I really appreciate the encouragement. You, Alli and so many others have been the "voices of reason" in my recent moments of confused hysteria!! Thanks so much for all your couragement, and thoughtful insight!!

One day, my guys n gals will know what good water feels like, hopefully sooner than later

[reefrunner69]

Why is that different from any other method, no matter how you cycle, it is month, if not years, before you tank attains "maturity" and "stability". Whether or not it cycles instantly is the real question. I certainly believe, and always have, that someone would actually make a product like this that actually works, what I have a problem with, is for the instructions to advise adding a full fish load, rather than some other form of nitrogen for the bacteria to feed on. Once the product leaves their possession they have no control over it, no way to know the product was not subjected to extreme heat or freezing. For this reason, I would recommend adding a couple of silversides or krill or shrimp and monitor for a few days to see what happens, if it handles the ammonia, great, put your fish in, if it doesn't....you've just saved yourself some money and some little fishes lives.

[Mr502go]

I agree Reefrunner, unfortunately hindsight is 20/20

[sweetsuvvyb]

Once the product leaves their possession they have no control over it, no way to know the product was not subjected to extreme heat or freezing

Well, from what I understand form my LFS...marineland is trying to place strict controls on how the stuff is retailed. My LFS chose not to carry it, because they were told they had to purchase a specialized refrigerator from Marineland for a couple hundred dollars, and as a small business, they didn't feel the expense was warranted.

[Mr502go]

Originally Posted by sweetsuvvyb

Well, from what I understand form my LFS...marineland is trying to place strict controls on how the stuff is retailed. My LFS chose not to carry it, because they were told they had to purchase a specialized refrigerator from Marineland for a couple hundred dollars, and as a small business, they didn't feel the expense was warranted.

If the stuff works as well as it's supposed to, and as popular as it is, it seems they'd be cutting themselves out of quite a bit of market share by not carrying it.

[reefrunner69]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

This stuff is sold to customers and shipped UPS or FED EX or USPS, as I said, they have no control what happens to the stuff once it leaves their possession. Do you really think when skippy the LFS worker accidentally leaves the box of stuff sitting on the floor in the back room, or sets it next to the radiator in the winter and walks off for several hours, that he is gonna tell the boss...hey I accidentally left the biospira next to the heater, it's probably all trash now...or is he gonna put it in the fridge and pretend nothing happened?

[Mr502go]

Originally Posted by reefrunner69

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...

This stuff is sold to customers and shipped UPS or FED EX or USPS, as I said, they have no control what happens to the stuff once it leaves their possession. Do you really think when skippy the LFS worker accidentally leaves the box of stuff sitting on the floor in the back room, or sets it next to the radiator in the winter and walks off for several hours, that he is gonna tell the boss...hey I accidentally left the biospira next to the heater, it's probably all trash now...or is he gonna put it in the fridge and pretend nothing happened?

BINGOO!!! That's exactly what I was thinking could have happened. I hope not, but if it is the case, then I think I'll have a talk w/my LFS about a refund, otherwise I'll never spend another red cent there.

[AtodaJ]

Originally Posted by reefrunner69

Why is that different from any other method, no matter how you cycle, it is month, if not years, before you tank attains "maturity" and "stability". Whether or not it cycles instantly is the real question.....I would recommend adding a couple of silversides or krill or shrimp and monitor for a few days to see what happens, if it handles the ammonia, great, put your fish in, if it doesn't....you've just saved yourself some money and some little fishes lives.

I think that is great advice. Actually, I think perhaps going a step further and combining the fishless cycle with Bio Spira would be the way to go. That would give you about as much control as you could ask for over the cycling process!

Plus, since there are no fish making a mess, you wouldn't get the urge to "clean" anything or perform water changes that could stall the cycling process. Then, if Bio Spira didn't work, you could definitively state that your package of Bio Spira was "damaged goods".

[vega]

Well i think its up to you now on what to do to ur tank...

IMHO you can continue to try Bio Spira, BUT you CAN also try the std procedure for
pre-cycle (with a bit of hiccup of course) which is checking ur tank chemical and do partial water change a bit more frequant for 1st 1-3 months till the water stable.

I think you should just accept ur tank's current situation and actually ENJOY the hobby instead of continue the witch hunt...

[Mr502go]

Good advice Vega, thank you.

[vega]

Spending the money on new filter or new tank !!!

[Terry]

All i will say is, at least you can get Bio-Spira, Us Brits have to wait until they dicide to export.
I would also like to say to Mr502go that i feel that the lady you spoke to did not deal with the stuation properly and that you should ask to speak to one of her superiors. i have been in the trade for a while now and i have always put my customers first. The way i look at it is, if you don't treat your customers right, you loose customers. THE CUSTOMER ALWAYS COMES FIRST.
Stand your ground, if something hasn't worked and you have followed there instructions then the least you should get is a replacement. If you was to buy a filter or a heater and it was defective you would get a replacement, your Bio-Spira is no differant, so i think that you should get a replacement. There is no argument.

Good Luck

[AtodaJ]

Originally Posted by Terry

Stand your ground, if something hasn't worked and you have followed there instructions then the least you should get is a replacement. If you was to buy a filter or a heater and it was defective you would get a replacement, your Bio-Spira is no differant, so i think that you should get a replacement. There is no argument.

It seems like the Marineland lady wasn't very nice. That, however, has no bearing on whether he received a bum batch of Bio Spira so there is an argument I'm afraid.

Whether the product was used "as directed" in this particular case is debatable and has in fact already been debated in this thread as well as another thread. I'd chalk this up to experience and just start enjoying the hobby as Vega said instead of continuing the witch hunt. Let it go man... let it go.

[Mr502go]

What has kind of upset me is I bought over 4 packages of the stuff NONE of it worked!!! I've got over $50 invested in the stuff 8O

[saberry]

This is just my apprentice opinion - well, after this post, I guess I'll be a regular. Anyway, it was at this site just a couple of weeks ago that I first read about Bio-Spira. I was starting with an empty tank so I figured I had nothing to lose.

I added my gravel and water and let it circulate / filter for about 3 days and began testing my pH and water hardness. I did a 20% water change to help adjust the water hardness and added pH down to lower my pH to an acceptable level. I waited another two days, before adding Bio-Spira and continued to check my pH and water hardness.

Once I was convinced my numbers were stable, I bought my fish - five to start with in a 55 gal tank. While I was allowing the fish to adjust to the water temp in the tank, I added the Bio-Spira. I released the fish into the tank about an hour later. Two days after that, I added two more fish.

That has been 3 days ago. I just now, within the last 10 minutes, checked my amonia and Nitrite levels. I am happy to report that both are ZERO ppm. I have to admit, I was nervous about these tests since I new what an important indicator they are of the health of my fish and suitability of my tank.

All of my tests were done using the Freshwater Master Test Kit by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. According to the instructions, the Nitrite test is about 3 times more sensative than other tests on the market - can't verify that personally though.

Anyway, at this point, my tank is crystal clear, all my fish are thriving and this weekend I am going to purchase 3 clown loaches which will be my final addition to the tank. My daughter has a small Eclipse tank that is not in use which I may use as a quarantine for the loaches for a short while.

So, I have to say I am a VERY firm believer in Bio-Spira. I should point out that I did buy mine from a reputable lfs where it was properly refrigerated at the store and at my home until ready for use.

I'm sorry for your bad experience, but I felt obligated to point out that extremely positive results are also possible with this product. I would feel equally obligated had this product failed to live up to its advertising.

Best of luck,
Sean (that's what the "s" in the saberry is for.

[saberry]

Sorry, forgot to mention that becuase of the hard water, my water change was with RO water. I saw a bigger difference with this than I did with the pH down initially.

[Mr502go]

Considering I just medicated my tank due to an Ich outbreak, I will get to try the ol Bio-Spira again.

I'll probably order from Bernie this time around.

I'm still going to pursue Marineland, if for nothing more than to at least let Emily's supervisors know the the level of customer service is unacceptable at best.

As far as the "Witch Hunt" is concerned, it didn't start out as being after her head, but I paid, more than once for a product bearing their logo it didn't work, they are supposed to make sure their retailers (representatives) handle the product accordingly.

Also, my problem was that I don't feel she listened to my real concerns, and hence didn't attempt to address them.

[AtodaJ]

Originally Posted by Mr502go

Considering I just medicated my tank due to an Ich outbreak, I will get to try the ol Bio-Spira again.

I really feel bad for you Mr502go. You've had a real rough time of it lately. After the cycling debacle now you got Ich! You're probably thinking... what next!

If you do try Bio Spira again just remember to be patient and don't touch your filter media or the gravel during the process. Change as much water as needed to fight off ammonia spikes in the event the Bio Spira doesn't work... again. Even if the product fails your tank will cycle by itself in due time.

@ saberry - Keep testing your tank. You didn't indicate how big those 5 fish are but a 55 gallon is a rather large tank. If your fish are small then you wouldn't register any ammonia for at least a week using a Nessler test even without Bio Spira. Something to think about.