Petco RANT

[geckofrog]

Monday night I went to my local petco looking for Glass blanks (baffle) for my homemade wet/dry filter. And of course like any of you I checked what kind of saltwater fish they had.

Im looking at the clownfish and they had ich all over them! It was horrible, so I look at the next tank and the next tank and EVERY fish had it!

I go up to the counter and let them know that they have ich, and a young guy comes up and says "Oh yeah, well we can't really treat them since we have anemones in other tanks, so were going to have to do a water change..."

Normally that would be fine, however, 75% of the fish were close to dying, and why can't they setup a quat tank for them, 4 different tanks would be enough for all the personalities of the fish they had on hand.

Im going there tomorrow to see what has survived, i'll take photos

geez, makes me really mad!!!

The petco is in Sherman, Texas (an hour north of dallas)
Steer clear of them!

[krap101]

pretty much all chain pet stores around here deteroriate within 2 years. when they first open their usually great, but then people start getting lazy etc etc. my petco use to have a decent selection of fish, now its like guppies platies cories and the rest of the more common fish.

i was suprised they went to saltwater because they could barely keep up with fresh.

[zenn]

Yeah, i've observed the Petco's in my area doing very irresponsible things with the saltwater life. Probably half of the time I go in there, about 75% of the saltwater fish they have look ill, dying, or are already dead and floating around the tank. I think most Petco's really don't know what they're doing. I think they loose a lot of money on it too though. I wonder if they won't eventually stop carrying saltwater fish. I know if I was the CEO of Petco, I would cut that end of the business.

[ntswift]

I noticed that at my local petco also. I asked one of the guys there, that actually semi-knew what he was talking about, about why they have so many fish that die. He said its because the people that put the fish in just float them for 10-15 minutes and just drop them in like freshwater. I told him they should train them or something but he just said that they wouldnt do it because it would take too much time to acclimate them properly. I think they need to hire people that are half way intelligent and that actually know what they are doing.

[BeGiNeR_7]

I went in to mine the other day and saw they had three dogface puffers put in a small maybe 15-20 gallon tank. They were all under a lot of stress and looked near death. Then they had about five or so mandarin's and there of course were a lot of people interested in them. The lady was saying of yes they are very easy to care for and so on.... I went over and about lost it. I said "no" they need a well established tank with a healthy supply of pods and so on... Of course, I completely embarrassed my boyfriend and my sister but it just makes me so mad to hear things like that. I was so close to buying one of them because I knew they had a better shot in my tank than the other people looking at them. I of course didn't because while a mandarin is on my list I don't plan to get one for another year or so. Although, I have not noticed any ich, mostly due to the fact that one of the guys that works there comes in on Thursdays (when they get their shipment) and the weekends to try to help. He has had tanks for a few years and tries to help with experience. I give him credit for trying but I think his time would be better spent training the staff. I could go on but I need to get some work done. Until next time...

[krap101]

i actually think they dont really lose money on dead fish. i worked at a petland for a summer, and i think they report the amount of dead fish to their distributor and they replace them or something...

[fishfreek]

Moved to General Retailers as that is where all discussions on businesses need to be. Additionaly I must remind all that post in the thread that they need to keep their comments within their area of knowlege. Be that a set of local stores or stores that they frequent vs making statements about how all the stores are.

We will premit open discussion on stores and their quality as long as the discussion is kept to be on facutal elements.

In the defense of petco and every other national pet chain. The stores are only as good as their employees. With low pay rates stores will have a difficult time keeping employees for long periods of time. The end result is high employee turnover and cross training amongst different departments. Instead of having specialists for aquaria you get cross over employees that might cover aquaria as part of their duties but they do not focus on the aquaria areas.

Since there is often some level of specialized knowlege needed as to the operation of the tank systems and medication when required its often a store manager or some other level higher up than the floor personell that ends up having to do the regular maintance on the systems.

While there are no doubtly many stores that have quality control issues from time to time I have a very hard time buying the idea that all stores of a given national chain are consistantly poor in their aquaria husbandry.

[geckofrog]

Originally Posted by fishfreek

Instead of having specialists for aquaria you get cross over employees that might cover aquaria as part of their duties but they do not focus on the aquaria areas.

This may be true but it is the companies fault for not training the employee all about how to take care of animals, regardless of what their "duties" are.
My father owns a 100+million dollar company a year and each employee has to go thru at least 4 weeks of training, plus additional if say he/she is in a specific field, etc. And that 4 weeks of training is if you want to be in sales, an additional 4 weeks for being a tech, and its not a complicated industry either!

Originally Posted by fishfreek

While there are no doubtly many stores that have quality control issues from time to time I have a very hard time buying the idea that all stores of a given national chain are consistantly poor in their aquaria husbandry.

If a resturant has quality control issues, what happens to it? Yup, eventually it dwindles down and dies, nobody wants to go there.

Fishfreek, I noticed that you have always defended stores (namely PETCO) in your posts, im starting to wonder if you work for Petco, or your just concerned that you will not get any more sponsors (banner ad revenue thru your phpadsnew system) for fear that your members might "complain" about their products. I'm not being mean, I'm just stating a possible reason...

Regardless, I reported PETCO to ASPCA

[fishfreek]

Fishfreek, I noticed that you have always defended stores (namely PETCO) in your posts, im starting to wonder if you work for Petco, or your just concerned that you will not get any more sponsors (banner ad revenue thru your phpadsnew system) for fear that your members might "complain" about their products. I'm not being mean, I'm just stating a possible reason...

You trying to threaten me? I in no way am assocated with PetCo, Wal-Mart or any other store that I have and will continue to stand up for in the past/future. Its a simple fact that its oh so easy to bash a company for issues at the local level. There are more appropriate ways of taking recurse. First contact the store manager and express your concerns, then contacting a regional manager with your concerns and if still unanswered or not taken care of take it to the national level.

If you would go back and read the terms of use on this site linked here for your convience http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=26 everything I said in regards to making sure ones comments are factual and are statements of truth an not making general unfounded statements about the organization as a whole is covered under these rules and regulations of using the site.

As far as training. Its corprates repsonsiblity to train regional managers and its the regional managers responsiblity to train more local managers and thus local managers responsiblity to train store managers and then finally store managers to train employees of a given store. Simply stating that its corporate responsibility to train the floor sales staff is a quick and easy out.

[crazyred]

To say nothing of the fact that, as the owner of this website, if fishfreek is seen as endorsing blanket allegations about certain corporate, chain petstores that may prove to be untrue, he could be left wide open for a libel or slander lawsuit by said corporation.

That's why he wants you to limit your allegations to individual stores that you've been to and not be so general about Petco overall. They could have a fabulous store just the next town over where they take VERY good care of thier fish....you can never be too sure. It's also why he seems, as you say, to defend the corporates. You can't say that they do that in every store and that Petco is a horrible coporation. Have you been to every single Petco that there is? My guess would be no.

Just FYI....I don't work at any pet sotre anywhere. I work for the City of Harlingen, just thought I would let you know.

[zenn]

Originally Posted by crazyred

To say nothing of the fact that, as the owner of this website, if fishfreek is seen as endorsing blanket allegations about certain corporate, chain petstores that may prove to be untrue, he could be left wide open for a libel or slander lawsuit by said corporation.

That's why he wants you to limit your allegations to individual stores that you've been to and not be so general about Petco overall. They could have a fabulous store just the next town over where they take VERY good care of thier fish....you can never be too sure. It's also why he seems, as you say, to defend the corporates. You can't say that they do that in every store and that Petco is a horrible coporation. Have you been to every single Petco that there is? My guess would be no.

Just FYI....I don't work at any pet sotre anywhere. I work for the City of Harlingen, just thought I would let you know.

i'm not an attorney, but i'm not sure if it's correct to say that fishfreek can be sued for libel because of what someone else wrote on his forum. I'm not familiar with any laws governing forums etc., but that sounds a little far fetched to me. It seems he woudl have to make the post a sticky, or endorse what is being falsely claimed to be even close to liable. It's not like he can control everything said on this forum at every moment.

People are made at some of the Petco's in their areas, and some of us went over the line and made a few generalizing statements. Shame on us. We shant do it again. My appologizes. The only Petco's i can account for are the two in the Lincoln, Nebraska area.

[geckofrog]

Originally Posted by fishfreek

unanswered or not taken care of take it to the national level.

I've already did this

Originally Posted by fishfreek

If you would go back and read the terms of use on this site linked here for your convience http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=26 everything I said in regards to making sure ones comments are factual and are statements of truth an not making general unfounded statements about the organization as a whole is covered under these rules and regulations of using the site.

If i was you, i would make it a policy not to post on my own forum, obviously this was a RANT and I was unhappy about the treatment of saltwater fish at my local PETCO, its best to have your members comment about it, then you yourself personally-its more professional.

Originally Posted by fishfreek

As far as training. Its corprates responsibility to train regional managers and its the regional managers responsibility to train more local managers and thus local managers responsiblity to train store managers and then finally store managers to train employees of a given store. Simply stating that its corporate responsibility to train the floor sales staff is a quick and easy out.

No its not. Here's why:

If the employees can not take care of the own fish, then of course the store manager should train them how too, obviously they did a crappy job at that. IT IS the responsibility of corporate to have a system in place that if a fish gets sick that they should setup up a quant tank if they are not smart enough to have each tank have their own filter, instead of them all going into one large sump. Thats my big pet peave.

not threatening anyone here, just making sure that this forum isn't like 95% of the forums out there...

[crazyred]

Originally Posted by zenn

i'm not an attorney, but i'm not sure if it's correct to say that fishfreek can be sued for libel because of what someone else wrote on his forum. I'm not familiar with any laws governing forums etc., but that sounds a little far fetched to me.

When it comes to suing people in court for anything these days NOTHING is far fetched. An argument could be made that, by not directly challenging blanket statements about said corporation, and by allowing any false allegations to be promulgated on his wesite, fishfreek is promoting libel on Aquarium Advice. I agree he can't controll everyone else's opinion, but he can say exactly what he has said.....that this site does not necessarily endorse said opionions, and he can ask each member to limit said opinion to just the stores where they have witnessed problems.

If a lady can sue McDonalds for millions and win because she spilled hot coffee, that she bought from there, on herself, then anybody can sue anyone for anything and win.

[fishfreek]

We will run this site as we see fit. If your comment about 95% of all the other forums is implyting that this topic will get locked down simply because of a clash in opinon your going to be disappointed as we dont shut topics down for simply disagreeing but if one cointinues to make blanket unfounded statements about a corporation in general we may elect to discontinue the discussion as a basis of potental slander/libel.

Who is to say that petco does not have some established corporate policy on what to do when something occurs in the stores tanks as far as disease prevention or QT after an outbreak. They very well may have such a poilcy but the employee you spoke with or even the mangement of said store may have not known about the poilcy or may have elected to not follow the policy.

If we where privliaged enough to have someone whom worked in petco upper management as a member we might be able to estalibsh if such policies exist or not.

With that said a little google searching will turn up online petitions for petco to discontinue the sale of live animals. So your not alone in what you have seen but placing general comments toward the corporation as a whole is incorrect and should not be done as it can open you up to significant issues.

All I have to say is search the internet for lawsuits as a result of what someone posted on a web forum. I cant give more information than that as even mentioning the suit by name could open myself up to a suit.

[BillyZ]

Originally Posted by geckofrog

... if a fish gets sick that they should setup up a quant tank if they are not smart enough to have each tank have their own filter, instead of them all going into one large sump. Thats my big pet peave.

That really isn't feasible for any large aquatic seller. Go to any LFS (not just a big chain store) and you'll see the same thing. Any number of tanks connected to the the same sump and filter system. To have a sperate filter, heater, UV, etc on every single display tank would cost a fortune in both equipment and maintenance labor. It's in your best interest as a fish buyer to be aware that pet stores do this. When you are going to buy fish, it is not only important to see if the fish in the same tank are healthy, but the fish in the same section/store are healthy in general. personally, if I see more than a few ill-looking fish, i won't buy any form that store. There are a few stores in my local area that I trust. Those are the ones that I occasionally see "Treatment in progress, fish not for sale" signs on them with a HOT filter hanging off the front. yes, all pet stores should do this IMO. But that's just my opinion.

[zenn]

Originally Posted by crazyred

When it comes to suing people in court for anything these days NOTHING is far fetched. An argument could be made that, by not directly challenging blanket statements about said corporation, and by allowing any false allegations to be promulgated on his wesite, fishfreek is promoting libel on Aquarium Advice. I agree he can't controll everyone else's opinion, but he can say exactly what he has said.....that this site does not necessarily endorse said opionions, and he can ask each member to limit said opinion to just the stores where they have witnessed problems.

If a lady can sue McDonalds for millions and win because she spilled hot coffee, that she bought from there, on herself, then anybody can sue anyone for anything and win.

It's frustrating when tort law is so out of control like this. Aren't they supposed to be restructuring it soon?

And I don't want to get too far off topic but the McDonald's coffee case was a little more serious than people think. That woman had 3rd degree burns all over her lower abdomen. If that would have been a child spilling their hot cocoa, i think popular opinion on the case would be different.

[crazyred]

I agree on the tort issue. As for the McD's suit.....hello, don't put coffee, which you should expect to be hot, between your legs. 'Nough said.

Fishfreek summed it all up in his last post....there is a liability and it is open for lawsuit.

I can agree with some of the frustration that is encountered when we see our beloved fishy friends suffering at chain stores, or any store, for that matter. I just want to take drastic measures sometimes when I go to a certain chain store in my town and see the way the fish are kept. I agree 100% that if a fish store, whether it be mom & pop or chain, doesn't have the resources to properly train their employees to care for the fish, then that store should not sell fish, but, alas, in this world that is too idealistic. Our only option is to report any abuse that we see to proper authorities and protest their policies with our wallets.

[tbonem91]

I will vouch that every fish I've bought at my local Petco has died within a week or two in my tanks while fish from Petsmart or reputed Fish Stores thrive. I don't know the internals of training but it is painfully obvious that the people who do take care of the aquatic departments in large chain stores are more often than not minimally trained. I do agree that it is a local issue but like FF said, with low pay and high turnover, even among management, quality training cannot really be maintained.

[zenn]

Originally Posted by tbonem91

I will vouch that every fish I've bought at my local Petco has died within a week or two in my tanks while fish from Petsmart or reputed Fish Stores thrive. I don't know the internals of training but it is painfully obvious that the people who do take care of the aquatic departments in large chain stores are more often than not minimally trained. I do agree that it is a local issue but like FF said, with low pay and high turnover, even among management, quality training cannot really be maintained.

I have a different experience. Both my yellow tang and yellow watchman goby are from Petco. They have done looked and acted healthy since day 1. But i hand picked them and made several trips before i decided to buy the two fish i did. They have really good deals on yellow tangs in my area.

[Ricky@3rdshift]

I worked for my loacl petco , and I can tell you a few things in defense of the store I worked for.

#1 Petco has a regional Companion animal specialists which dictates the types of meds used, SG level, substrate, etc... t be used in each situation.

For example eash SW display is to have at least 1 Tang, 1 DF Puffer, 4 tanks of c lown in diff variety. The rest is as sales allow.

I finally convinced the GM to use Live sand in the tanks and ditch the CC which has helped I also wached fish on my days and kept a notebook between me and the aquatic specialist to help keep up with any problems.

#2 Medications is used as a last resort. 1st treat ment for ich is a partal water change and salt added in a cup to the tank. If this does not work over a few days we can used Rid Ich or a compareable prduct in the FW only. In the SW tanks Ich has not been a problem with 2 or 3 exceptions and in all cases was caused by bullying in the tanks and was fixed with moving in habitants to other tanks in the system.

#3 Most fish as I understand it are shipped UPS ground to the stores with a max of 3 day travel most getting 2 day service due to dist location. Our store got Fish from Seagrest which in my opinion was poor quality fish. Just before I quit we were checking for alternatives for fish.

This is all personal experence from my employment, and may vary from stre to store.
However as mentioned low pay and keeping payroll down to minimum plays a key roll in tarining and knowledge. All the managers usually get monthly inspections in my area, and get wrote up for animal violations. This includes poor quality Fish and lack of tank maint.