Experiment: Extreme cycle

[threnjen]

I haven't any daily dosing with this cycle, which is why I am surprised it is currently in suspension. I've actually added less ammonia than most of the fishless cycles.

Aldueb thanks for joining the thread, a Ph.D in soil chemistry sounds really interesting!!!

As far as the cycle, still waiting. I actually think that the NO3 is going up. I hadn't done a non-reduction test in a while and I did a full strength test and it's a very strong red that I don't recall seeing before. Mathematically though I'm only going to end up with like 63ppm Nitrate. I think these tests are just not accurate enough for the picky stuff I want to know.
The nitrites test seemed a smidgen lighter... hard to say though.
How many days til intervention? 2 or 3?

Today was Day 25, by the way.

[threnjen]

Still holding =|
Must be only like two more days to intervention right? I will be very displeased.

[Supergummy]

2? That's my guess.

[threnjen]

Two more days, two more static numbers. Intervention time.

Made a few observations as I was performing a 93-94% water change, adding new water, and dosing back to 4ppm. (reminds me - I need to add some baking soda)

There is moldy looking stuff growing in the return tube. That is new and curious. I haven't ever seen mold in any cycling or established tank. But... from the outside of the tube, it looks like fuzzy mold.

The water smelled odd. Not a smell I've smelled before, and I've cycled several tanks before.

I added a smidge of sand halfway through the cycle. I wonder if I somehow messed it up because of this. I'm not sure HOW.

Not sure what to make of these things, and whether or not they were significant.

I've learned throughout this experiment that... I need to do it again and utilize the things I have learned to do it more accurately.
But first I'll let this one complete.

[Delapool]

That does seem curious on the mold - any ideas? Seems strange as I assume all your tap water and gear would be the same as previous cycled tanks. Aliens?

[Alan26]

it's just some type of algae...with all the nutrients you've had in the water they've had perfect conditions to produce and grow lots of spores....mold would be in areas that are out of the water...another possible reason for lower nitrates...

[threnjen]

Sorry for lack of updates. I've been sick the last few updates. And - FIGURES - the 17th I was quite sick and didn't take water samples, and sometime between tests on the 16th and tests on the 18th the tank cycled! And I missed it!! ARGGH!! /frustration

The WC was on the 14th, and it was a big one, about 93%. I redosed to 4ppm.
15th - 2ppm ammo, OTC nitrites, 5 nitrates
16th - .5ppm ammo, nitrites about 10 (did reduction), 15 nitrates
17th - missed water samples
18th - .25ppm ammo, nitrites 0, 20 nitrates

One thing to note is that the ammonia is still is not 100% gone after 4 days, and I only dosed it to 4ppm. During the experiment it wasn't fed for 14 days and it appears it did lose a smidge of processing ability in that time. OR it was not up to processing 4ppm when it stopped, since I never did a "check". I feel like after it dropped to 0 the first time, I should have continued to dose it to 4ppm every time it zeroed, until I saw it clear in a 24 hour period, and THEN ceased all dosing. This way I could be sure that I had built ammonia to process 4ppm in 24 hours, and then tested its ability to pick that back up at the end of cycling.

I need to go dose it back to 4ppm, but I might not, as my kid would really enjoy getting some fish tomorrow and I think there have been enough failures of control in the experiment that I don't really need to keep it up. The tank has cycled.

Time spent: 32 days

Recap:

Originally dosed to 16ppm ammonia, and then waited.
Nitrites appeared on Day 11.
Nitrates appeared on Day 14.
Ammonia was gone on Day 15.
Nitrites/Nitrates appeared to slow down significantly around Day 18, but I believe they were still being slowly process, as nitrates seemed to be slowly increasing.
93% Water change on Day 28, dosed up to 4ppm
Cycle complete on Day 32

[Caliban07]

So was the water change a necessity or would it have just took longer to complete without?

Welcome back!

[Hobgob]

Originally Posted by Aldeub

.


the grand solution...monitor your additions of n closer, and base additions on conversion rates, wait it out, or do water changes. there will be no grand one size fits all follow this dosing yada yada yada...

if you want a process for from scratch fishless cycling you have to base everything off of process rates, not a time line...i would like to see all of this "daily dosing" stuff end...it seems that's one of the most common links in all "stalled" cycle problems...

I'm sorry for only picking this out. But I thought the way to cycle any tank was dose it to 4ppm wait for it to reach back down to 1ppm and dose it back up. If your ph get below 6 or above 8 waterchange. Also if you levels ever got of the chart waterchange. This is the system I have seen been used many times without stalling I thought it was the typical way of doing it. One way for all.

I'm sorry for jumping back in this and picking it out. It's just I thought that was the normal way.

How's the cycle coming along Jen? Such a great experiment!!!

[Hobgob]

Originally Posted by Aldeub

in some stagnant systems nitrate is kept down because it is converted to inert materials, used by plants, denitrified and exchanged with the atmosphere...denitrifying bacteria do this and it can be exchaned with the atmosphere...going from nitrite can also be converted and exchanged...plants use many forms of N...

what i think would be cool is if you could establish an aquarium that could remove all nitrates on its own without water changes...

I'm confused. There must be different kinds of denitrifying bacteria. I thought denitrifying bacteria put nitrogen back into soil? That's why we plants beans after corn. Corn just eats up all the nitrogen And beans have denitrifying bacteria on the roots to put the nitrogen back in for the corn next year. Please explain this more to me. I'm very interested. Seeing as that is a part of my life.

[Alan26]

Originally Posted by Hobgob

I'm sorry for only picking this out. But I thought the way to cycle any tank was dose it to 4ppm wait for it to reach back down to 1ppm and dose it back up. If your ph get below 6 or above 8 waterchange. Also if you levels ever got of the chart waterchange. This is the system I have seen been used many times without stalling I thought it was the typical way of doing it. One way for all.

I'm sorry for jumping back in this and picking it out. It's just I thought that was the normal way.

How's the cycle coming along Jen? Such a great experiment!!!

There are many ways...i was pointing out something i see commonly here

[Alan26]

Originally Posted by Hobgob

I'm confused. There must be different kinds of denitrifying bacteria (yep, many kinds). I thought denitrifying bacteria put nitrogen back into soil (not really, mostly convert nitrate and such to N2...a gas)? That's why we plants beans after corn (we do...that's not why). Corn just eats up all the nitrogen And beans have denitrifying bacteria on the roots to put the nitrogen back in for the corn next year (you have the concept...but the details are horribly wrong...). Please explain this more to me. I'm very interested. Seeing as that is a part of my life .

legumes fix nitrogen (well, the nodules on their roots do)...that is, they take nitrogen that is not fixed...like atmospheric N2 and convert it to something that will stay in the soil, like ammonia....

Start with this...if this is part of your life this page should be all common sense to you...

Nitrogen fixation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Hobgob]

Originally Posted by Aldeub

legumes fix nitrogen (well, the nodules on their roots do)...that is, they take nitrogen that is not fixed...like atmospheric N2 and convert it to something that will stay in the soil, like ammonia....

Start with this...if this is part of your life this page should be all common sense to you...

Nitrogen fixation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That crazy thanks for the info. I must have heard the wrong word growing up and just thought it was true lol. Still what i meant though lol. I guess I should have went to ridgetown.

[threnjen]

Here is the tank that I was cycling, if you have any non-scientific interest
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ml#post2928430

[Delapool]

Nice, absolutely brilliant!