Experiment: Extreme cycle

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by threnjen

That site seemed to be down when I checked
Tank has about 76 liters, can you check amount for me if it works when you look to increase 1dkh?

Yeh I'll have a look when I get home

[Caliban07]

2.3 grams according to that site.

18.4 grams will produce 8dkh for 76 litres.

If this site is correct.

[threnjen]

Perfect thanks.
Where the HECK did I put my little uber scale, GRRRR

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by threnjen

Perfect thanks.
Where the HECK did I put my little uber scale, GRRRR

No probs. That measure only covers the alkalinity used it won't cover the acid produced.

[Rak9378]

This is a great experiment Jen!! Can't wait to see how it turns out!!

[threnjen]

Today's update (did the tests a while ago, just forgot to post)

Everything was the same EXCEPT the kH dropped to between 6 and 7. No drop in ammonia or pH, which is peculiar.
Also, tested for nitrites just in case, none yet.

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by threnjen

Today's update (did the tests a while ago, just forgot to post)

Everything was the same EXCEPT the kH dropped to between 6 and 7. No drop in ammonia or pH, which is peculiar.
Also, tested for nitrites just in case, none yet.

Yeh this is a bit strange. I could understand kh dropping without a ph drop as the kh could still be absorbing the acidity but early on in the cycle ph dropped significantly whilst kh remained at 8dkh

[threnjen]

I was confused by that too, yesterday I even ran the kH test twice. I didn't understand why pH would plummet and kH remain the same. But now the pH seems to be holding and kH dropping instead? That is more what we would have expected all along, yes?

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by threnjen

I was confused by that too, yesterday I even ran the kH test twice. I didn't understand why pH would plummet and kH remain the same. But now the pH seems to be holding and kH dropping instead? That is more what we would have expected all along, yes?

That's exactly what I would have expected. Crazy stuff.

[Rak9378]

Originally Posted by threnjen

Today's update (did the tests a while ago, just forgot to post)

Everything was the same EXCEPT the kH dropped to between 6 and 7. No drop in ammonia or pH, which is peculiar.
Also, tested for nitrites just in case, none yet.

I'm surprised by the lack of nitrites. If NH3/N4 has dropped from 16 to 12 I would have thought there would be nitrites. Have you considered that nitrites might be so high that the kit is unable to read it and your getting a false zero reading?

[Kittykat364]

This is very interesting. The experiment will help with all types of cycles.

The API master test kit, if higher than the greatest concentration the chart shows, will just look like the greatest concentration, not zero. At least the last time I checked.

[Rak9378]

Originally Posted by Kittykat364

The API master test kit, if higher than the greatest concentration the chart shows, will just look like the greatest concentration, not zero. At least the last time I checked.

I'm not sure this is correct. Take a look at this video

http://youtu.be/ZPiDRid_Km8

I have also seen this discussed on various forums.

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by Rak9378

I'm not sure this is correct. Take a look at this video

http://youtu.be/ZPiDRid_Km8

I have also seen this discussed on various forums.

From what me and Jen have gathered so far is that ammonia usually start to from around day 9-12 and nitrites begone to show around day 12-14. Nitrites then stay till around day 21-24 so I I'm not shocked we haven't seen nitrites yet even though ammonia has gone down.

Correct me if in wrong Jen. I forgot the days.

[Rak9378]

But it seems like things are ahead of the normal schedule here right? On 3/19 Test results showed TAM of 16ppm. On 3/22 TAM decreased to 12ppm...this only after 4 days. So if ammonia is decreasing wouldn't that mean that nitrite should be appearing?

[threnjen]

Not necessarily, there might not be any waste products yet. In any case an ammonia drop of that amount definitely wouldn't produce nitrites that are so far off that they skew the vial; the vial would just turn super dark purple.

My 12 could have been wrong - it might be more like 13 or 14. It is awfully hard to peg it perfectly with the API test.

Which means, it's time for a different experiment, right this minute Deliberately create different concentrations of ammonia. Take ammonia tests, and photograph, and use THIS as my color guide. It suddenly seems obvious that this is what I should be doing already.

Edit: This is going to take at least an hour, so don't wait around

[Rak9378]

Ok got it. I didn't think it took that long for the bacteria to produce nitrite once the ammonia has been consumed. Now I'm really interested to see when nitrites will show up. I think I may buy some ammonia and see if I can recreate the experiment in that video. I would love to know the exact point at which the hobbyist kits no longer work.

I had the same thought yesterday about taking pictures of my test results. I have trouble deciphering the colors of the Nitrate test and I when I took a picture of the results against the card I could see more of a difference in the colors when looking at the picture!

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by threnjen

Not necessarily, there might not be any waste products yet. In any case an ammonia drop of that amount definitely wouldn't produce nitrites that are so far off that they skew the vial; the vial would just turn super dark purple.

My 12 could have been wrong - it might be more like 13 or 14. It is awfully hard to peg it perfectly with the API test.

Which means, it's time for a different experiment, right this minute Deliberately create different concentrations of ammonia. Take ammonia tests, and photograph, and use THIS as my color guide. It suddenly seems obvious that this is what I should be doing already.

Edit: This is going to take at least an hour, so don't wait around

Wait what? Have I missed something? Are you saying it's easier to see the colour after a picture?

[threnjen]

No, I'm making a reference photo with every single ppm from the chart represented in a single photograph.
I expect this will actually be useful to a lot of people

[threnjen]

A nitrite or nitrate one would be MORE useful, but not sure how to know exactly the moment that nitrites peaked in order to know it's at X amount. I mean we know how much ammonia makes how much nitrites, but how to know that it's all converted, with none of the nitrites converted?
This is the problem with a middleman element :P

Nitrates I should be able to do this, however.

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by threnjen

No, I'm making a reference photo with every single ppm from the chart represented in a single photograph.
I expect this will actually be useful to a lot of people

Ah that's a great idea. You gonna leave it 10 mins before pic?