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Old 05-01-2009, 07:33 PM   #1
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Pointless Fish Rants

This post is not intended to propose debates over animal cruelty, business or moral ethics, etc. nor provide a venue to "bash" particular businesses; nonetheless, every now and then it seems this forum brings about negative comments in regards to large chain fish stores. I understand the frustrations with those who believe the business is not in the best interest for the animals and you would be correct that the "almighty dollar" wins out, but if you are going to point a finger in blame you should first take a good look in the mirror. I see relentless posts on many forums commenting on the horrid conditions our "fish novelties" are kept in, yet their ill feelings have not warranted the consideration of not purchasing the fish. If you purchase something, there is a need to restock it. Supply and demand, quite simple. I will step down from the soapbox, but there is no point in creating a fuss if you are still going to support the companies time and again.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:21 PM   #2
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I got lost reading that.
I think you mean for us not to support the big fish stores and go to the small locally owned LFS's. Where I live there is only one, and that store doesn't have a lot of things that I use..
Good luck,
Charles
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:48 PM   #3
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Post removed. Good Lord....
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:39 PM   #4
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What's your point you are complaining as well? that solves nothing
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:16 PM   #5
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Before this thread goes any further I will issue a warning to remain civil. Innovator has made his point, politely and not offensively, any posts that become offensive will be removed from this thread.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:18 PM   #6
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He's basically saying that people complain about fish stores having bad quality fish, and that since you're buying them, the businesses don't need to change..

I totally agree
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:39 AM   #7
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I agree with the theory myself. It is the same as anything else, where there is demand, there will be a need for supply. There are some lfs's here I do not support, regardless of the price of their livestock, based on principal.

While I like everyone else, enjoy a good deal, I have found other aquarists that I can buy fish from at good prices.
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Old 05-02-2009, 01:34 AM   #8
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100% agreeable


As far as supporting your LFS instead and complaining they dont have a selection, ask them because they do hand pick what they get still, chains dont.

All LFS go thru a regional supply usually near a major airport, they keep the livestock close to hubs like ohare and LAX ect so they are readily shipped, readily pick-upable by locals and alot less time in transport. One of my LFS's does this as well as stock with locally bred hobbyist supplied fingerlings.
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:22 AM   #9
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I agree with innovator and zagz. I boycott the chain stores, and opt to buy from a fantastic LFS I have close by. The prices are probably on the order of 50% more at the LFS, but it is worth it to me to buy from folks who are passionate about the hobby, and are in it for more than just $$$.
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:15 AM   #10
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^^^ most LFS have a frequent buyer program too, id ask em since the prices are so high most use that to offset and keep a solid loyal customer base.
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbwmn View Post
I got lost reading that.
I think you mean for us not to support the big fish stores and go to the small locally owned LFS's. Where I live there is only one, and that store doesn't have a lot of things that I use..
Good luck,
Charles

I believe the point was that it's hypocritical to stand in line at the checkout counter with your bag of fish and supplies while at the same time complaining about the horrid conditions. Not just fish stores. I can tell you that in the business I own, I am quick to give a partial refund/discount etc because once the customer is gone they are gone. It takes many positive experiences to get/keep a customer and one bad experience to lose one. So even when you take that fish back and/or complain and you get the refund/exhange/discount the store still wins. They may be breaking even on the cost of the goods sold because of the discount but most likely they are keeping you as the customer because they 'tried to do the right thing'.

If you own the business you are very aware of the power of the customer and the mighty dollar. If the customer had any idea of that power the paradigm would switch so much that you might see some dramatic changes. Until then it's a game that the customer can't win.
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Old 05-02-2009, 08:12 AM   #12
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I agree with you James. Great point.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:18 AM   #13
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I own a dog as well and buy the dog food from the fish store that I do not like and dont want to support. I suppose I am going to start buying the dog food from Kroger or some grocery store like that. Keep in mind that they get money for other things they sell not just fish supplies.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:26 AM   #14
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My point is to the thread that you could be a LFS or PETCO PETSMART it does not matter. They get all their fish from a hatchery. Im not supporting either supplier. I simply look for healthy fish that are in need of a good home. You could go to a big chain or a LFS and they all know about the same amount of information. And I've heard horror stories about both. In the end we support fish being born and raised in a hatchery for profit anyway.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:40 PM   #15
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All I have is a Petsmart and a Petco.
I enjoy both stores.

Usually clean and well staffed.

Oh.. And Walmart. Horrible. I would never buy a fish there.

BTW - I was in San Antonio recently and went to many LFStores.
Most were excellent, but some were way worse than the Petcos and Petsmarts in the area.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteDevil View Post
100% agreeable


As far as supporting your LFS instead and complaining they dont have a selection, ask them because they do hand pick what they get still, chains dont.

All LFS go thru a regional supply usually near a major airport, they keep the livestock close to hubs like ohare and LAX ect so they are readily shipped, readily pick-upable by locals and alot less time in transport. One of my LFS's does this as well as stock with locally bred hobbyist supplied fingerlings.
Actually all LFSs don't go about it that way. The one I worked for stopped using the local supplier when time and time again they sent us sick fish. It got pretty old seeing DOAs and ich-covered fish so the owner started ordering directly from a fish farm in Florida. The quality of our fish increased dramatically- even fish like rummynose and cardinal tetras that often ship poorly started arriving healthy and thriving.

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My point is to the thread that you could be a LFS or PETCO PETSMART it does not matter. They get all their fish from a hatchery. Im not supporting either supplier. I simply look for healthy fish that are in need of a good home. You could go to a big chain or a LFS and they all know about the same amount of information. And I've heard horror stories about both. In the end we support fish being born and raised in a hatchery for profit anyway.
I completely disagree. Chain stores IME tend to hire people regardless of their level of knowledge, as long as they pass the drug test and are willing to accept their piddly wage. On the other hand, LFSs tend to be more selective- sure, you run into plenty of folks still who don't know what they're talking about. But I doubt if anyone here would exactly call me a noob when it comes to fish, and I was BY FAR the least knowledgeable employee my boss hired.
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Old 05-04-2009, 12:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
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All I have is a Petsmart and a Petco.
I enjoy both stores.

Usually clean and well staffed.

Oh.. And Walmart. Horrible. I would never buy a fish there.

BTW - I was in San Antonio recently and went to many LFStores.
Most were excellent, but some were way worse than the Petcos and Petsmarts in the area.
The point isn't that LFSs are always better than the chain stores. Sometimes they aren't. The point is that people who support the bad ones are perpetuating the cycle of fish being kept in poor conditions because the store will simply restock when fish are purchased. Ranting and raving about how awful the store is may make the hobbyist feel better, but does nothing to solve the problem.
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:02 AM   #18
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yes by why not save the fish when you can? Maybe there should be a level that not just fish but all animals need to keep at. Then no matter if it was a LFS or chain store the animals health and safety are kept to an adequete standard
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Old 05-05-2009, 12:15 AM   #19
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yes by why not save the fish when you can? Maybe there should be a level that not just fish but all animals need to keep at. Then no matter if it was a LFS or chain store the animals health and safety are kept to an adequete standard
Because the store will restock the fish that you buy, and spending money at a store to "save the fish" from poor conditions only reinforces to that business that their husbandry practices are acceptable to their customers.
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:20 AM   #20
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burn them all down.... o well i guess this isnt that type of thread.....

anyways i 100% agree with you Innovator also what often isnt thought of is how much money the chain stores dump into our hobby. look how many people get into the hobby because of them. the big chain stores dont care about the fish. they dont make money on them they only have them there so they can sell all the products that go alonge with it.
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