A Few Plant Questions

[Zer0]

zomg.. i'm in the FW section.

Anyways.. i was thinking about starting a small FW project. About 10G... the dimensions are 18in X 10.5in X 12in.

First question is about the lighting. I have a T5HO light, that is a 2bulb fixture, and each bulb is 18w. I have one Actinic bulb.. and then either one 10k or 12k bulb. Would a light like this.. over 12" of water allow me to have any type of plant i want? High light... low light, etc..

Also, would i need to swap out the actinic bulb for another 10 or 12k bulb for better growth? Not sure if actinic bulbs do anything for plants as i'm a salty.

Next question is about filtration. I really want this to be a clean tank with as little components in the tank as possible.. so i was wondering if it would even be necessary to have a filter on the tank. Only thinking of having 1 or 2 small fish like neon tetras.. and then a couple of the small FW shrimp..

I'll get in to more technical plant questions later.. but is the general consensus that all FW plants are tropical? Like i said.. i was thinking of getting the livestock i mentioned above.. but wanted to know if they could survive w/o a heater, as well as the plants.

Also.. how's the evaporation on a small 10G tank? My room is usually on the cool side.. maybe 75-79 constant.

Last question is about CO2.. I hear that plants grow fast with this setup.. and was wondering if it is necessary? Do i really need a CO2 diffuser? Or will plants grow just fine under the light.

All right. Thanks to all who read this and have answers for me.

 

[Crepe]

Yes you have high light but as for any plant you want. That's questionable. Some plants might just not like your tank. I don't know why it happens but plants like HC seem to enjoy melting away for no reason after awhile.
You just need to try a bit of everything and what doesn't make it doesn't make it.

Next you need to get rid of the actinic bulb. It doesn't help anything. Replace with another 10k bulb but better a 6700K bulb. No, you don't need a filter but it's best to have at least SOME water movement. Under 48 watts of t5 lights I lose a gallon of water to evaporation a week on my 20g. So that's maybe 1cm of water gone weekly. Yours will be less.

All FW plants are tropical in the sense they enjoy 75-82 degrees. Some like it warmer others want it cooler. Most do best at 76-78 degrees.

I'm sans heater but that's because throughout the day my room and tank stays 82-84F. But a small submersible 78F set thermostat heater will suffice and I got one for a QT at walmart for 10 bucks.

You need CO2 with that much light. The reason is that algae can metabolize nutrients more efficiently at low CO2 levels than plants being that it's generally 100% photosynthetic and very simple. Plants also can only grow fast with enough Carbon, which is essential in the Calvin Cycle. You can use Flourish Excel but at that high light, the costs will build up.

 

[Zer0]

Weeeeeellll.. awesome. Thanks for the answers. Just what i needed to hear. Not sure i can get 6700k bulbs for this fixture.. but i will definitely look around. If i can't find any i'll most likely be going with the 10k bulbs.

As for the plants, i see what you mean. I was thinking of doing some Riccia.. so it makes the substrate look like grass.. but if there are any other plant candidates that look more like grass than riccia, please let me know.

As for the filtration.. i might go with a small HOB filter and shove a small heater in there so it's not in my tank. Sound good? Run the filter with carbon and the heater?

Also.. are CO2 diffusers cheap? I mean.. i shouldn't need a huge or expensive system since it's only a 10G tank.. right?

Oh yeah and should i use RO/DI water? Or just use tap water and dechlor it?

 

[IT-FishGuy]

Just started with plants so if I go off the rails someone put me back on track. I've seen the rule of thumb is about 2-3 watts per gallon depending on the plants.
2 watts seems like med-high and 3 would be high.
Filters, use to be that way back that people didn't use filters in planted tanks. I think it was due to the surface agitation which puts more oxygen in the tank.
I have a ten in a window and I lose about an inch of water a week we don't have central air so it can get really hot. if the water temp stays between 75-79 constant you may not need a heater, mine doesn't get a work out in the summer.
CO2 I have heard really makes the plants take off, but you'll need to provide the proper nutrients for them, because the photosynthesis will be more aggressive. Might want to get a type of flourite gravel, that'll depend on what plants you want.

Mmmm saltwater....

 

[Crepe]

What are your base parameters? I use straight up tap but I may switch to RO/DI in the near future when I get enough money to buy new membranes for my set up.

DiY co2 is cheap with 15 dollar start up cost. As for diffusers, they are maybe 7 bucks on aquabid (With free shipping! And are pretty glass). However DIY co2 has a hard time building up enough pressure to pass through the ceramic disc. Just get a cheap bamboo chop stick and soak it in water overnight. Then shove it up the CO2 outlet and BAM Co2 diffuser.

As for the HOB. That's fine although I would just use filter floss as carbon may take out some micro nutrients.

Riccia likes it cooler and I can never keep it alive but you may have better luck. Grass like plants include:
Hemianthus Callitrichoides, lilaeopsis brasiliensis, dwarf hair grass (eleocharis acicularis, parvula, or japonica). Echinodorus Tenellus and many many more.

 

[Zer0]

Well i was thinking of doing a mix of substrate. Mostly flourite, but a little bit of white sand.. i have special ideas. But for the most part, i want to use any type of substrate that will help grassy plants grow efficiently. Also.. i'm not ACTUALLY into the whole, plant thing, and what i'm really looking for are small plants. I want the entire substrate to be covered in a short, grass-like plant, and then i will have a nice piece of branching driftwood that i want to eventually be completely covered in a nice moss. Something like that.

Wow! Thanks Crepe! You're the man! More information that i needed to hear!

Also.. i'm a little lost lol. Do i need to have a diffuser? And is CO2 costly? Like.. do i need to buy a huge CO2 tank and keep refilling it every week or something..? That seems a little tedious..

 

[Crepe]

If you go the pressurized route (125-200USD) You're only going have to refill it maybe annually with a 20# tank. I would just go with a yeast mixture; google diy co2 reactor. A diffuser dissolves co2 into the water. A co2 system is the whole set up.

A yeast based diy co2 set up will only cost you a 2L bottle some silicone a 10lb bag of sugar from costco's and some yeast.

 

[cabezon]

with the evap,it is not like salt. if you constantly top off, you are concentrating the bad stuff. I would rather do a PWC at that time than just top off.

 

[meegosh]

Yes, after you hit around 2.5-3wpg you will need to inject CO2 and start dosing. You can find a good all-in-one type setup (regulator, bubble counter, tubing etc) on ebay for around $80-100. You will need a good drop checker with 4dkh solution to tell how much co2 is in your set up also. As for the CO2 tank, a 5# will run you around $70-80 filled. In a 10g that 5# should last you well over a year. After you have the tank it is only like $12 something to get it filled. Any welding supply shop should be able to help you there.

As far as ferts, KNO3, KH2PO4 (mono potassium phosphate), CSM+B Plantex and depending on your gH, you may need a booster. All can be found at the link below. I would recommend doing EI dosing as it is pretty straightforward and easy to do.

Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - Main, Main, Dry Fertilizers, Dry Fertilizers,

 

[Aquarium1]

Also, with tetras like neons your gonna want a school of about 7 or so, although I hear cardinals have somewhat more personality, and they're a bit more colorful. Good advice so far

 

[JustOneMore20]

Yay! Glad you are atleast considering a planted tank.

Great info from those guys above.

Well i was thinking of doing a mix of substrate. Mostly flourite, but a little bit of white sand.. i have special ideas. But for the most part, i want to use any type of substrate that will help grassy plants grow efficiently. Also.. i'm not ACTUALLY into the whole, plant thing, and what i'm really looking for are small plants. I want the entire substrate to be covered in a short, grass-like plant, and then i will have a nice piece of branching driftwood that i want to eventually be completely covered in a nice moss. Something like that.

I wouldn't mix the substrates together...but if you want to do a planted area with Flourite and then do sand elsewhere. If you mixed them together, they will eventually separate and won't look like you want them to.

Hmm...short grassy plant. If you can find true Eleocharis parvula...it is supposed to be the shortest species labelled "dwarf hairgrass". There are atleast 2 Eleocharis species known as dwarf hairgrass...parvula is the shortest. Under that light and with co2 and ferts it should grow pretty short and it obviously looks grassy. Not sure if that is the look you are going for though?

I see you mentioned Riccia before....its a nice looking plant but it will need alot of pruning. Its a mess to prune...just from experience. It grows fast under good conditions and it doesn't root to things (wood, rocks) so it sometimes will loosen up and be floating around the tank. And when you trim it, the pieces will go everywhere. It was a pain when I had it.

Also.. i'm a little lost lol. Do i need to have a diffuser? And is CO2 costly? Like.. do i need to buy a huge CO2 tank and keep refilling it every week or something..? That seems a little tedious..

I suggest co2 with that lighting. It will help your algae issues. Without co2 and that much light, you will have some algae issues. That brings on nutrient needs. With that much light and co2, you'll need to dose some ferts. Steve listed what you'll need above.

I would either get a 5lb tank. The setup all together will still cost around $200. Or you could go with a paintball co2 setup...it uses the co2 cartridges used in paintball guns. They sell co2 regulators that fit them....they just don't last as long and I bet its not that much cheaper.

I would get 10K bulbs if you can't find 6700K. I like Giesemann bulbs if you are willing to spend the extra money...a combo of Midday and Aquaflora is what I use.

Ohh and I agree that if you want Neons, you'll want to get atleast 6...preferably more though. Cherry Shrimp are a good idea though....or some Sparkling Gouramis. They are small...4 of those should be good if you want minimal fish.

 

[Zer0]

Yeaaaaaah. I considered it. But now i'm good lol. I'm just going to make an AIO SW nano. I really appreciate the advice guys, and i do plan on making a FW planted when my mom is ready to setup her 55G. As for now.. i'm really only spending little money on this tank and i feel i can make this SW setup less than 200$.. lol. I have this thread bookmarked for future reference tho.

 

[Aquarium1]

You would <>___<> LOL

 

[JustOneMore20]

Yeah, I'd probably rather do a sw nano at this point than a planted nano...especially if the costs were going to be about the same.

 

[Zer0]

Haha sorry guys.. It's going to be a 10G AIO peninsula tank.. i think it's going to be pretty sick. It's going to be an experimental tank. A place i can keep things that you normally can't keep with coral and what not.. like really cool flatworms and angry little crabs.

BUT. A freshwater planted is DEFINITELY in the near future. Definitely. And you guys will be the first to know about it.

 

[Zer0]

On the other hand.. is this CO2 system a complete system? Would i need anything else if i bought this setup?

Pierce CO2 System | Green Leaf Aquariums

 

[Crepe]

No you would not, but those canisters are expensive and may only last a few months. I think they can use paintball canisters though. 95g of CO2 isn't much. You can buy a 1.25lb co2 container for 40 dollars that I think can fit on that. The refills cost 4dollars each time though.
Best to email GLA about it though.

I think DiY co2 is your best choice though. It's cheap (20 bucks) and although it takes monthly maintenance is more then efficient enough for your needs.

 

[Zer0]

Alright cool. Once again, Crepe, you are my savior.

And thanks to all that gave their input in this thread. Appreciate it greatly.

 

[JustOneMore20]

If you look into co2 on the 55g, if you plant it, I wouldn't go with DIY. Its not very effective until you have a ton of bottles and you change the mixture often. Pressurized co2 is only expensive in the beginning....then refills aren't that bad..its less maintenance IME and more stable.

Anything 20g and under DIY should be ok though.

 

[Crepe]

He's doing a 10g. I get 30ppm CO2 with 3litres of co2 mixture on my 20g. He's set.