About dosing routines ?

[Xzap]

5 week old 90 gal.. things have leveled out now and I want to know how should I check for dosing. Check no3 uptake daily or weekly, etc..

Here's where I'm at and how I got there.
nh3 0.0
no2 0.0
no3 10 ppm
po4 1.0
pH has leveled out at 6.8 since adding a more efficient co2 reactor 24 hrs ago.
kh 6dkh
co2 28.5 ppm

I've been adding 1/3 to 1/2 tsp baking soda every other day. My kh will fall 1 degree in a day or 2.
Flourish 2 -4 times a week.
I've trimmed out all the BBA, no new growth

Comments , suggestion welcome

Dave

 

[czcz]

Now that CO2 is at proper levels, NO3 and PO4 uptake will likely increase, and so you sould measure as often as you can. If you want to dose macros and micros on opposite days (most of us do this), you would measure NO3 and PO4 every other day. Are you familiar with EI?

 

[Xzap]

Not familiar with EI cz.

Dave

 

[czcz]

Here's EI, or the Estimative Index. In a nutshell you would dose ~10ppm NO3 and ~.5-1ppm PO4 every other day, traces on the other days, and then a massive water change (50% or more) at the end of the week to remove any excess. Your goal is to make sure nothing bottoms out, and you can adapt this method to your test results or whatever experiments you want to run. If you measure over 10ppm drop in NO3 over two days, you would increase the NO3 dose to ~15ppm, for example. You've probably seen Travis's dosing schedule, which is adapted EI. This was the method that got me healthy plants, and while I adapt it (I run high PO4 and Fe), I always stick to EI's fundamentals, fwiw. I know many have healthy plants by dosing only when nutrients bottom out, but when I tried it I failed.

*Does anyone know why Dave's KH consistently drops?

 

[Xzap]

Oh yeah CZ, I have used the Estimative Index on another tank. It didn't hit me when you said "EI" *lol*

Thx,

Dave

 

[travis simonson]

*Does anyone know why Dave's KH consistently drops?

That is odd. Could there be something in the tank, like wood, that is leaching tannins into the water? Tannins are acidic and could cause something like this to happen. I use sodium bicarb to maintain my tank's KH and it works like a charm.

 

[Xzap]

There are 3 small pieces of wood in there Travis, but it's never leached visibly.

Dave

Update: kh dropped 1 degee over night to 5dkh. Added 1/2 tsp baking soda.

Dave

 

[travis simonson]

I agree Dave, I wouldn't think that three small pieces of wood in a 90G would be able to affect the KH much at all. There must be some other factor at work here :?

 

[Xzap]

And my no3 stays consistently at 10 ppm. I over feed and so far it's worked.

Dave

 

[TankGirl]

I too am puzzled by the KH drop - which you do see in old tanks, but not so much in new setups. What is your water change schedule?

I'd be hesitant to use overfeeding as a method to keep NO3 in the proper range. You will increase DOC's tremendously this way, leading to such problems as dropping KH ( ), among many other tank woes often posted about here. I'd feel better if you let your plants suck the NO3 out of the water and dose the necessary amount with dry ferts.

 

[Xzap]

pwc 25% a week TG.

Dave

 

[urville]

xzap
let me ask a few questions...
other than the wod whats in your tank as far as like substrate and whatnot. did you use peat in your substrate possibly?

whats your tap water test at?
and whats your tank test at for GH?

sounds to me like theres an imbalance in your buffering.
have you ever used any ph changing or buffering products. i ask because phosphates in your tap or from ph products act as a buffer just like kh. so your co2 readings could be off, but that just seems doubtful to me.

i'd be more inclined to think your gh is low as well and your kh is dropping, or that something you have is absorbing something like calcium or magnesium.
urv

 

[Xzap]

Hey urv

My substrate is Eco Complete. I have a rock planter that has approx. 4 square inches of NC red clay in it.
There's also some slate rock and a very small piece of a birch tree branch.

I run 2 baskets of CC in my Fluval.

My kh is down to 4dhk this morning, that's after dosing a whole tsp of baking soda yesterday.

I don't have a gh test kit, but I will this week.

Thx,

dave

 

[Purrbox]

Do you by chance have a large population of snails in the tank? or a smaller number of large snails (ie apple or mystery snails)? If so they could be using up the calcuim to build their shells causing the KH to drop.

 

[Xzap]

My snail population is almost zero.. I see a small every now and then.

dave

 

[TankGirl]

This is a real quandary. I'm going to have to hit the books.

One obvious question, but we are grasping at straws here - is your KH test kit possibly out of date?

 

[Xzap]

The box doesn't have an expiation date on it TG, I bought it about within the last 4 months or so.

I'm gonna check and see if my lfs has a gh test today.

I think my fish are smoking pot or something in there at night *lol*


Thx,

Dave

 

[TankGirl]

If it is an AP test kit it will have a lot number printed on the bottle itself, which is a manufacture date (not an expiry date) so if it was manufactured within the last year then you are good to go. I have seen them on the shelf with a date over a year old, so it is a good idea to check them when you get a new kit.

 

[urville]

it is a drop test right? not a dip(litmus)?

by NC red clay i asssume you mean north carolina?
well for one te clay's cec abilities could be absorbing your buffering. De-ionization services use this to that very thing. absorb magnesium, calcium and sodium which may explain why adding baking soda doesnt work. but this is a maybe.

to be honest my suggestion is to test your tap water, have the LFS test it too. you could calibrate your test kit as well. find a good calculator for adding kh to make certain levels, i assume you have seen this as you add baking soda now, take some RO or Distilled water and add the kh so that you know what the kh is... following me? now test the kh of that water now you kow if your test is wrong and by how much.

most people with eco complete talka bout raising levels not falling levels, i checked a thread i know of on the batches of bad eco complete but thats the opposite of your problem. of course obviously they have messed up before. last time the added limestone by accident.

other than this i would remove anything in the tank like rocks, the clay, the CC, and the wood. because at this point you just dont know. and i'd take some tap water in a bucket and test it and then one by one add the different things for a week at a time and test to see whats doing what to your water. honestly these sorts of things are hard to pinpoint without luck or tests like this. you could take each one out one by one and see if it stops happening too... theres a couple of ways...

start by checking your test kit, then your tap, then the tests of your things in the tank

 

[Xzap]

My API kh test kit was manufacured 04/04 ?.. lot number is 59A0404 Tank Girl.

Will do urv, I have distilled bottled water in my home, so I can test using it.

Thx,

Dave