Algae on my plants

[AdamHorton]

OK so here's my story. I've had a 20G planted tank for a while now and I've had a lot of success. I went on vacation for a week and I just got back and I noticed sort of an algae outbreak in my tank. I'm pretty sure I know what the problem is (maybe) but I thought I'd be responsible and post my observations here to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Size: 20G long

Lighting: 30" Nova Extreme 2x24W T-5 10,000K, on from 9AM-Noon and 4PM-10PM every day

Stock: 7 tetras and a zebra danio (it's a little low, I'm planning to move these fish to another tank and convert this to a shrimp tank in the next couple of months. Maybe low nitrates are part of the problem?)

Plants: The ones I care about are some anubias (broad leaf) and a java fern anchored to a piece of driftwood.

Fertilizers: I've been gradually increasing the ferts I dose since the plants seem to do better that way. Right now and for the last several weeks I've been dosing twice a week the following: 1/2 tsp Potassium Sulfate, 1/2 tsp Mono Potassium Phosphate (dry ferts, I dissolve them in some tank water and then add it back). Every 2 weeks I do a 50% water change, and whenever I add new water to the tank, it's treated with Seachem Flourish for micro nutrients (and Prime, of course).

I used to dose Excel with these ferts, and when I did that, I had pretty much zero algae, but I've heard that Excel can be bad for inverts, so for a couple of months I've been trying to make this tank work without algae. I've had a little bit of this same kind of algae, but it's been pretty much under control, and plants seem to be doing fine (new growth all of the time). I'm posting this because when I got back from vacation there was a lot more algae and I want to make sure there isn't something else at work other than the fact that I haven't given the tank ferts in a while.

Pictures:
http://www.adamhorton.com/files/flog/good/ID/algae01.jpg
http://www.adamhorton.com/files/flog/good/ID/algae02.jpg

I'm terrible at identifying algae, I couldn't tell you what kind this is. As much of it as there is, on all of the plant leaves, they're all still showing new growth...

Levels: everything relevant that I have test kits for:
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm
Phosphate: 0

Now I left for vacation for a week, I gave ferts before I left (and changed the water 50%) and I left a dose of ferts to give on Tuesday night. I suppose it's been a little longer than usual since they've gotten ferts, so that might explain the low levels.

I have KNO3 lying around that I used to dose and I don't anymore. Perhaps I should add some to the ferts that I give? Maybe since I'm keeping the fish count low for now (and there will be just shrimp later) I should start giving nitrates to the tank?

Should my phosphates ever be zero like that? Maybe I should be dosing more of them?

Any thoughts or advice you have would be greatly appreciated. I just want to make sure I do the best thing for these plants.

 

[neilanh]

Not sure I've seen that algae before. See if anything here helps you
Greater Washington Aquatic Plant Association » Algae in the Planted Aquarium

Usually - algae is caused by an imbalance of nutrients. Perhaps just because you were gone for a while and missed dosing a bit it allowed one of the nutrients to zero out before the rest, and is what was feeding the algae.

I do think that you should be dosing CO2 on this tank based on your lighting level. Excel is one way to do it - what inverts are you trying to protect? You should consider setting up either a yeast-based DIY CO2 system, or if you can afford it a pressurized system will do wonders for you.

 

[mudraker]

As algae is caused by an imbalance of nutrients, I'd look at dosing the phosphates again.

I'd also look at getting that algae off the plants.

In my personal experience, just wiping it off of the java fern will be fine and very easy.

The anubius can quickly be killed by algae when it infiltrates the grooves in the leaf stems. You might want to spot treat with excel (with the PWC schedule you have, it should be gone by the time you ad inverts).

Or you can remove from the aquarium , do a quick soak in a 5% bleach, 95% water solution. You can remove the bleach by letting it float in some water treated with conditioner that removes chlorine before putting back in the tank.

This is my personal experience only.

 

[AdamHorton]

Hmm, well my best guess as to a match would be the Green Spot Algae, since it says that happens from low phosphate levels. I remember seeing something exactly like that before I started dosing phosphates long ago, but the stuff on my plants appears to be brown. I wonder if it's the same stuff. Either way I'll monitor the phosphates more closely and try to keep them up.

I used to only dose once a week, and it was half of those nutrients, so there were times where the tank went more than a week without ferts and I didn't see this type of algae, that's why I was suspicious, but that was a while ago and it's possible that these plants have changed the way they consume nutrients since then.

There are no inverts in the tank right now. I used to have some Red Cherry Shrimp in the tank and they did OK for a while but eventually they all died. When I tried to figure out why, I asked around and I got two main answers:
1. I should not have shrimp in a tank with other fish, period, even the less aggressive ones like I have.
2. Some people said they have problems with Excel and inverts.

I like shrimp, and so my plan was to phase out the Excel and move the fish to a larger tank I'm planning to have soon (still planning it though), then I could make this one into a shrimp tank.

mudraker - Interesting that that article and you both suggested spot treating with Excel. I'd never heard of that before. I'm not worried about the java fern at all, but I'll probably try bleaching the anubias. Do you think spot-treating with Excel would be an option when I eventually have shrimp in the tank?

About CO2: I remember looking into it a while ago. I'm certainly not brave enough to do DIY CO2. I would like to exhaust all other options before buying a CO2 system, since I know those are pricey, even for a smaller tank like mine.

Excel did wonderful things for my tank when I used it, and all of the accounts I heard about Excel's effect on inverts was pretty speculative. Does anyone know for sure, one way or the other, if Excel has an adverse effect on inverts?

 

[mudraker]

I have no idea about shrimp and excel myself, I've never mixed the two.

I almost said in my first post that I'd never heard of that and saw no reason not to mix the two, then realized that I really didn't know so thought it wise not to say anything.

Personally, I think excel has been getting a bum rap lately.

I know a lot of people have shied off from using it from a lot of recent postings suggesting it melts all types of plants, not just the known problem with Vals and Aranacharis.

Personally, I suspect many of the plant melting problems reported and possibly the invert problems as well, were because the water conditions were in poor shape to begin with. Excel was used to try to save everything instead of addressing the real problem and then the excel is blamed when the deterioration continues.

Again, just my opinion.

I wouldn't hesitate to spot treat with inverts. I should experiment with my tiny shrimp tank, which is planted and has a few RCS.

 

[mudraker]

Here is another thought, if you get a decent colony of RCS going in the tank, you probably won't have to worry about algae at all.

The planted tanks I have with RCS have zero algae.

I've tried them in myy other planted tanks, but my fish snack on them too much.

 

[Coleallensmom]

I have a planted 20 gallon with the same lighting fixture on it. I have about a half dozen RCS and have been dosing Excel and Seachem Flourish. So far the plants and shrimp are doing fine. I've just been trying to be careful to dose either at or slightly below the recommended dosing levels since trace ferts w/ copper is supposed to be toxic for inverts at higher levels.

 

[mudraker]

How long have you been dosing Excel with the shrimp?

I'm curious to know for my own edification.

Also, I have dosed decent amounts microfertz with copper with shrimp in the tank with no ill effects. They need it in trace amounts at least.

 

[fort384]

I have used excel for years in tanks with shrimp with no adverse effects that I have noticed. Excel is a great way to control algae and add another source of carbon to a tank (except with vals and anacharis). I also keep RCS in a tank with tetras, and they seem to do fine... in fact the RCS are multiplying rapidly. I am sure some of the babies get picked off, but still more than enough survive to keep the colony going.

With your lighting, I would seriously consider adding P and N back into your dosing regiment. Balancing these nutrients in addition to using excel could dramatically help control your algae issues.

 

[AdamHorton]

First of all, thanks to everyone for your input. I think I'll start using Excel again, since the only reason I stopped was to eventually have shrimp.

Update: I've bleach-dipped and wiped off a good amount of the algae from the plants, and I've started adding some more Phosphate. To be clear, I stopped dosing Nitrates, but I've been dosing Phosphates the entire time. However, I've been playing around with adding some phosphate, then testing again. Turns out I need to be dosing a LOT more phosphate than I have been. After over twice the amount I normally put in, my test kit still reads a zero on phosphate...

I got my dry ferts (potassium phosphate) from AquariumFertilizer.com. I wonder how much it will take for it to start to register...

 

[fort384]

Be careful on the KH2PO4. A little goes a long way. Some PO4 test kits aren't particularly sensitive in the low ranges. Too much is worse than not enough imo.

What is your Nitrate testing out at? It seems a little strange to me that you would have a requirement for P and not N, unless you just have a massive bioload in the tank.

 

[AdamHorton]

I checked the label on my fert: it says "Mono Potassium Phosphate - 0-51-34" and it says "For a phospherous solution like the store-bought ones, add to 1 liter distilled H20 3/4 tsp MKP. The result will be a solution of -0.3% P2SO4"

I always hated chemistry when I had to take it.

Also, my test kit is a Red Sea test kit that I trust, I've taken measurements that I believe to be accurate using that kit in the 1 ppm range.

The way I mix my fert juice is I take some tank water out with a turkey baster into a plastic cup (about 1 cup worth). I add whatever dry ferts I want to put in the tank, and mix it until it's dissolved, then I add it back to the tank. Is there something wrong with this process?

I measured my Nitrates and they were at 5 ppm. I used to have a much larger bioload in the tank when I started dosing ferts, but now I don't, so that explains the discrepancy there. I need to shoot for 10-20 ppm nitrates and try to maintain that level, correct?

 

[fort384]

yeah... 5 is a little low for a high light tank. Would be comfortable with it being anything over 10 and under 30.

I shoot for 0.5-1ppm PO4, which is slightly lower than normally recommended... but seems to work well.

 

[AdamHorton]

Update: I added three times the Potassium Phosphate that I normally add. My PO4 test kit still reads a clean zero, but the plants look great (probably because of the bleach dip) and they're growing like crazy. I haven't seen any new algae at all, even though it's only been a couple of days.

I trusted this test kit, should I not trust it anymore? I ended up adding a total of 2 tsp of this dry fert to the tank, does that sound like a reasonable amount?

 

[fort384]

That is a LOT of KH2PO4. What kind of test kit is it? With any kit and that much PO4, I would expect to register SOMETHING. It might not be any good. They do expire.

For reference, I use 0.12 grams of KH2PO4 over the course of about 3 weeks to keep my 5 gallon tank at 0.5-1 ppm PO4.