Amazon swords not looking good

[Caliban07]

No contest from me. Just my observation and opinion with regards to sword plants and liquid carbon.

There are a number of plants that are said to be affected by the addition of glutaradehyde and glutaradehyde based products. I've never seen swords as being one of those but I could be wrong.

[DutchMuch]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

No contest from me. Just my observation and opinion with regards to sword plants and liquid carbon.

There are a number of plants that are said to be affected by the addition of glutaradehyde and glutaradehyde based products. I've never seen swords as being one of those but I could be wrong.

it was just a suggestion or rather an idea, vallisneria sp. being on that list, some cryps, etc.
Whether you use Excel or an alternate with Glut, they can still both have the same negative effects on your plants. In fact, since the other sources are stronger and you don't watch your dosage you can do worse damage. Just takes some attention.

No matter which source you use, there is not an effective replacement for carbon....not if you think it will give the same effects as CO2. If it were effective at doing that, nearly everyone would be doing it - and it just isn't happening. And Excel is not a type of fert.

[Caliban07]

Agreed. If it was one of those plants we would have picked up on it in post number one but melting from glutaradehyde is something that is not normally associated with sword plants. That why I used it in my tank.

In my experience you just need to be consistent with it. My hypothesis is that sword plants are pretty rubbish at obtaining co2 underwater. New leaves would be crinkled and translucent. After a week with liquid co2 they began to grow fine.

This was they tank using glut only and soil substrate.

[Bert2oo1]

Originally Posted by DutchMuch

it was just a suggestion or rather an idea, vallisneria sp. being on that list, some cryps, etc.
Whether you use Excel or an alternate with Glut, they can still both have the same negative effects on your plants. In fact, since the other sources are stronger and you don't watch your dosage you can do worse damage. Just takes some attention.

No matter which source you use, there is not an effective replacement for carbon....not if you think it will give the same effects as CO2. If it were effective at doing that, nearly everyone would be doing it - and it just isn't happening. And Excel is not a type of fert.

Disagree I've gone to dosages of up to 3x recommended with excel and had no negative effects on my plants (including Amazon swords). I double dosed with 30ppm of pressurised co2, still no negative effects to fish or plants. At this stage I had a wide variety of plants from swords to rotala to micro swords.

Sure some plants react badly but swords arnt one of them. If anything swords love the extra carbon in the water column. Just what I've noticed from experience

[DutchMuch]

Originally Posted by Bert2oo1

Disagree I've gone to dosages of up to 3x recommended with excel and had no negative effects on my plants (including Amazon swords). I double dosed with 30ppm of pressurised co2, still no negative effects to fish or plants. At this stage I had a wide variety of plants from swords to rotala to micro swords.

Sure some plants react badly but swords arnt one of them. If anything swords love the extra carbon in the water column. Just what I've noticed from experience

Thank you Bert2oo1 for your comment
I am not a Amazon Sword keeper, well I used to but I don't anymore. As I previously stated this was just an idea or rather a suggestion to the issue that being melting. I have read some "stories" of people who suffered swords (var.) melting due to the dosage of excel (varies).
Thanks
Nate

[DutchMuch]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

My hypothesis is that sword plants are pretty rubbish at obtaining co2 underwater. New leaves would be crinkled and translucent. After a week with liquid co2 they began to grow fine.
Attachment 297919

I thought you said you have pressurized co2 in diffusing in the tank? Plants period have trouble "absorbing" co2 under water.
Plants in the air can simply absorb carbon dioxide through their roots and pores, but plants underwater have a much more difficult process to go through, since carbon dioxide levels are often lower in water and the gas moves much more slowly. To compensate, many aquatic plants grow leaves with a thin cuticle that protects them from the elements, but also has enough pores to allow carbon to enter very easily, more easily than most kinds of plants. Aquatic plants do not usually have stomata to absorb air, because there is no air to absorb--although some varieties will grow leaves above the surface of the water to take in carbon dioxide.
Plants also need a certain amount of oxygen, though not much. The oxygen they produce and release into the water is almost always sufficient for their needs, and is absorbed back into the plant as it is needed. The problem is that many other aquatic creatures also need a certain amount of oxygen to survive. At night, when photosynthesis is no longer possible, the plants continue to take in oxygen but no longer exude any, which can make it difficult for other organisms to survive.
here is a good read: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/article...anted_tank.php

[Caliban07]

Originally I used no gas just liquid then moved on to gas.

The second picture is liquid only + soil. First picture is liquid and gas + soil + EI macros now and again.

I wrote this for the forum. I have a good grasp on co2

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ok-351974.html

[DutchMuch]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

I wrote this for the forum. I have a good grasp on co2

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...ok-351974.html

your mother must be proud. lol
What do you mean by "Gas"? I never doubted your knowledge of Co2, or at least I don't think I said I did?

[Caliban07]

Nate. Welcome to the forum and all but please stop trying to be a smarty pants because you are just embarrassing yourself

The thread is about melting SWORD plants. After you assumed I didn't know what liquid co2 was I stated that I have no issues with using glut with swords and posted a picture to back up my claims, you take the hump and think we are in a tank contest then proceed to post a picture of a tank that doesn't even have any swords in it. I then post a picture of swords thriving with just liquid co2 and a soil substrate (relevant because of high microbial activity producing some amount of co2) than you post a link for my benefit about co2

Op the liquid co2 is fine for sword plants.

I don't know how it works exactly but there are two reasons I can think why swords would melt AFTER adding liquid co2 and those are the nutrient demand increase is no longer being met (you already figured this one) or the plants are investing their energy in to producing newer leaves with less rubisco as it is no longer required in large amounts. Co2 sources need to be consistent and stable for the plants to adapt.

This is why plants melt when first submerged. They need to produce new leaves with a thinner boundary layer and with leaves with a new rubisco content that reflects the current co2 levels in the water. If the co2 is sporadic and unstable the plants will be forever investing their energy sources in to rubisco production which means old leaves melt. This can cause algae simply because of the increase in decaying organics/unhealthy plants. Good thing about glut/liquid co2 is that it destroys algae too.

If it isn't overdosed glut is an effective means of co2 but no where near as efficient as the gas carbon dioxide directly infused in to the water. Many many people run liquid or glut only tanks with success. The bigger the tank and the more plants you have this option becomes increasing unviable due to cost.

[flchamp89]

Some even run glut and co2...me

[Caliban07]

And me...sometimes I add glut.

[bhavik95]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Keep up with the liquid carbon. Do you dose it daily? Look for new leaves. Are there any? prune the old.

I only started adding the carbon since the last 2 days and was adding daily about 2.5ml for a 200L tank which is not even half the dosage. So i was wondering should i cut it down to every other day with the same amount added.

As for ferts i add it everyday. Was wondering after this finish if i should get a separate Marco packet instead of the mix

ill have a look new leaves and i have removed all the dead leaves plants looking very bare now and tank is pretty empty looking

[Fresh2o]

How long have you had the swords? I read through this thread but did not pick this up. Could this be a (transitional) melting?

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by Fresh2o

How long have you had the swords? I read through this thread but did not pick this up. Could this be a (transitional) melting?

4 years if I recall.

[flchamp89]

Yep 3.5? Its gotten more hungry

[Fresh2o]

Oh, not new....idk I'm stumped.

[bhavik95]

Yeah its been about 4 years

i mean this only occured after i add the carbon but like you guys said its probably not that.
Should i start adding the carbon every other day instead of daily?

[Caliban07]

Plant adaptations take time. Some changes are noticeable very quickly, others can take weeks. Continue to add the liquid carbon daily. There's not really a lot of leaves there but I'd bet the root system is large.

Which liquid co2 are you using or are you adding metricide 14? Are the nutrients and co2 being pushed around the tank adequately? When are you adding the liquid co2?

[Delapool]

Generally I start at a quarter or half dose of liquid carbon with new plants and then increase over a week or two just in case. Val used to melt badly from liquid carbon when I first started. Or if it got a fairly direct dose onto the plant without mixing too well into the water. Abulia, foxtail and other fine leaf plants were the same. After a bit I found I could dose 2x or 4x with no issues.

[bhavik95]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Plant adaptations take time. Some changes are noticeable very quickly, others can take weeks. Continue to add the liquid carbon daily. There's not really a lot of leaves there but I'd bet the root system is large.

Which liquid co2 are you using or are you adding metricide 14? Are the nutrients and co2 being pushed around the tank adequately? When are you adding the liquid co2?

Yeah the root system is quite large I was wondering if I should cut the root down a bit or not? Would that affect the plant at all?

I'm using easycarbo and I mean I hope they are being pushed around I try to put it in from of the filter output and I do have a airstone which hopefully helps as well

I have been put it in about an 1 hour after light have turned on. I know your generally meant to put it an hour before so I might start doing that