Amazon swords not looking good

[DutchMuch]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Nate. Welcome to the forum and all but please stop trying to be a smarty pants because you are just embarrassing yourself

The thread is about melting SWORD plants. After you assumed I didn't know what liquid co2 was I stated that I have no issues with using glut with swords and posted a picture to back up my claims, you take the hump and think we are in a tank contest then proceed to post a picture of a tank that doesn't even have any swords in it. I then post a picture of swords thriving with just liquid co2 and a soil substrate (relevant because of high microbial activity producing some amount of co2) than you post a link for my benefit about co2

Op the liquid co2 is fine for sword plants.

I don't know how it works exactly but there are two reasons I can think why swords would melt AFTER adding liquid co2 and those are the nutrient demand increase is no longer being met (you already figured this one) or the plants are investing their energy in to producing newer leaves with less rubisco as it is no longer required in large amounts. Co2 sources need to be consistent and stable for the plants to adapt.

This is why plants melt when first submerged. They need to produce new leaves with a thinner boundary layer and with leaves with a new rubisco content that reflects the current co2 levels in the water. If the co2 is sporadic and unstable the plants will be forever investing their energy sources in to rubisco production which means old leaves melt. This can cause algae simply because of the increase in decaying organics/unhealthy plants. Good thing about glut/liquid co2 is that it destroys algae too.

If it isn't overdosed glut is an effective means of co2 but no where near as efficient as the gas carbon dioxide directly infused in to the water. Many many people run liquid or glut only tanks with success. The bigger the tank and the more plants you have this option becomes increasing unviable due to cost.

what is this magical gas you speak of
jk jk

[brendenscott]

Excel does not cause this on swords. I have huge swords and overdose excel everyday. That is Calcium deficiency. Are you using tap water? What's your gh at? Even at higher levels your tap water may be lacking in calcium and in your ferts list did not see calcium at all. And from what I see that is clearly calcium deficiency.

Easy enough to fix. I like to use NilocG GH booster. The stuff works awesome. It for sure looks like you are short in calcium.

Start adding gh booster. Cut old leaves and you will see good recovery.

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by brendenscott

Excel does not cause this on swords. I have huge swords and overdose excel everyday. That is Calcium deficiency. Are you using tap water? What's your gh at? Even at higher levels your tap water may be lacking in calcium and in your ferts list did not see calcium at all. And from what I see that is clearly calcium deficiency.

Easy enough to fix. I like to use NilocG GH booster. The stuff works awesome. It for sure looks like you are short in calcium.

Start adding gh booster. Cut old leaves and you will see good recovery.

Calcium is a good shout for curled/crinkled leaves. Granted I was using soil which may have increased my calcium content but I have very soft water 10mg/l Ca and never had any issue with my swords with regards to calcium.

[brendenscott]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Calcium is a good shout for curled/crinkled leaves. Granted I was using soil which may have increased my calcium content but I have very soft water 10mg/l Ca and never had any issue with my swords with regards to calcium.

Transparent leaves could also be a sign of Ca def. With veins looking good like they do and the transparent leaves it very well could be calcium. Again soft water or even hard water the calcium levels could vary from tap. a GH of 5 could have less calcium than a gh of 3. Not saying 100% that it is calcium but from what I have seen those kind of symptoms have been calcium.

[DutchMuch]

Rotalabutterfly.com/

[bhavik95]

I have started to dose double the amount of ferts today with the same amount of carbon let's see what happens

If it is a calcium properly I might end up putting some calcium tabs that I have lying around add see if that helps

Also I was thinking of adding some new plants to my tank

The lights i have are 2x30watts light they are called Daylight Deluxe if that helps

i was thinking of adding from the following
Water wisteria
African Water Fern
Pogostemon helferi
hottonia palustris

So i was wondering would any of the following grow in my tank
i was especially look at the hottonia palustris and Pogostemon helferi as i like the shape of them just wondering if they would grow with my setup?

thanks

[bhavik95]

Any help please?

[flchamp89]

Im not familiar with the last species. But the others I think you can grow.

My points in this weren't clear. As plant mass increases nutrients must.

[bhavik95]

Could I defo grow the Pogostemon helferi as I know this is a medium - high light plant and I'm not sure that my lighting is quite up there

Yes I understand i need to get a better fertiliser so on the hunt for that as well!
Hopefully something that's cheap and last in the long run

[flchamp89]

I grow it at 35par..see my tank pics

[Bert2oo1]

Originally Posted by bhavik95

Could I defo grow the Pogostemon helferi as I know this is a medium - high light plant and I'm not sure that my lighting is quite up there

Yes I understand i need to get a better fertiliser so on the hunt for that as well!
Hopefully something that's cheap and last in the long run

It's hard to find PAR ratings on all these fixtures that are available these days. I'd say your best bet is to just try it. Just buy 1 pot and see how it goes. I've got 80 par at substrate and mine grows rather slow compared to Flchamp and caliban who are running 35 so in my opinion it's not a huge light demanding plant worth a shot!

[Caliban07]

Helferi doesn't need much in my opinion. Seems to prefer being left alone though.

[bhavik95]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Helferi doesn't need much in my opinion. Seems to prefer being left alone though.

Oh that's weird because I had a look online and on tropica and other website it says that it's a medium to high light
By left alone you mean?

Also I saw the picture of the tank you uploaded on here and I saw that your Amazon swords have literally reached the top, just wondering how you managed to do that? As this has never happened with me

Originally Posted by Bert2oo1

It's hard to find PAR ratings on all these fixtures that are available these days. I'd say your best bet is to just try it. Just buy 1 pot and see how it goes. I've got 80 par at substrate and mine grows rather slow compared to Flchamp and caliban who are running 35 so in my opinion it's not a huge light demanding plant worth a shot!

Hi sorry but I don't understand PAR ratings I did have a look online but didn't really understand it not really had a look too much into light. Just really got with the lighting that came with the tank

If you guys say it doesn't take much to grow i'll give it a shot I just hate wasting money if it doesn't grow :/

As for the hottonia palatrius plant would that be able to go in my setup?

Thanks

[brendenscott]

Par is what plants need to grow. Think of it like fuel. Just like in the wild they need sun to grow. In the aquarium they need usable par to grow. If you do not have a plant light then they will most likely not do good. What is the brand and model of light you have?

[Caliban07]

Originally Posted by bhavik95

Oh that's weird because I had a look online and on tropica and other website it says that it's a medium to high light
By left alone you mean?

Also I saw the picture of the tank you uploaded on here and I saw that your Amazon swords have literally reached the top, just wondering how you managed to do that? As this has never happened with me




Hi sorry but I don't understand PAR ratings I did have a look online but didn't really understand it not really had a look too much into light. Just really got with the lighting that came with the tank

If you guys say it doesn't take much to grow i'll give it a shot I just hate wasting money if it doesn't grow :/

As for the hottonia palatrius plant would that be able to go in my setup?

Thanks

Left alone I mean not moved from one place to another. New cutting are fine to be planted anywhere though.

For every example in this hobby there is a counter claim or example. Plants just need the right balance based on their requirements. What suits one plant may not suit the one planted next to it so while Tropica says one thing there will always be someone else who says otherwise. There's no rule set in stone and plant health can be achieved many different ways.

My amazon swords are another example of this. I swear by a soil substrate. I added lots of red clay. As the substrate becomes anaerobic over time this enables plants to use lots of iron. I had a wealth of micro nutrients and added co2 and liquid carbon. Swords love the stuff. I wasn't overly religious with water changes and a was sporadic with macro dosing. The pH would drop to 5.9 at the height of co2 injection and a had a no filter media in the canister filter. I let the plants do the filtering. TDS was up yet this is when my shrimp began to carry eggs. I had ottos then and I still have them now.

Most of these practices would be frowned upon. Low pH, no biological filter media, lack of water changes, TDS creep, lazy nutrient dosing etc but the tank was speaking for itself. I was pulling out plants like this.



This plant you can see here on the right in the middle. Look at the lower leaves when it was first planted the notice the size increase as it adapts to the co2 and closer to the light.



The more I stopped messing the healthier the tank became. Co2 was the key. Lots of gas injection and liquid dosing. The nutrients were mainly being supplied by the soil, fish and fish food then buffered every few days with a macro dose. A hybrid tank if you like a cross between high and low energy methods. I don't believe in high light plants. Only plants that require more co2 or are naff at competing. Others couldn't care less. Anubias, most crypts, bicarbonate users like vals etc.

The liquid co2 will help the swords.

Do you have a full tank shot?

[flchamp89]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Left alone I mean not moved from one place to another. New cutting are fine to be planted anywhere though.

For every example in this hobby there is a counter claim or example. Plants just need the right balance based on their requirements. What suits one plant may not suit the one planted next to it so while Tropica says one thing there will always be someone else who says otherwise. There's no rule set in stone and plant health can be achieved many different ways.

My amazon swords are another example of this. I swear by a soil substrate. I added lots of red clay. As the substrate becomes anaerobic over time this enables plants to use lots of iron. I had a wealth of micro nutrients and added co2 and liquid carbon. Swords love the stuff. I wasn't overly religious with water changes and a was sporadic with macro dosing. The pH would drop to 5.9 at the height of co2 injection and a had a no filter media in the canister filter. I let the plants do the filtering. TDS was up yet this is when my shrimp began to carry eggs. I had ottos then and I still have them now.

Most of these practices would be frowned upon. Low pH, no biological filter media, lack of water changes, TDS creep, lazy nutrient dosing etc but the tank was speaking for itself. I was pulling out plants like this.

Attachment 298007

This plant you can see here on the right in the middle. Look at the lower leaves when it was first planted the notice the size increase as it adapts to the co2 and closer to the light.

Attachment 298008

The more I stopped messing the healthier the tank became. Co2 was the key. Lots of gas injection and liquid dosing. The nutrients were mainly being supplied by the soil, fish and fish food then buffered every few days with a macro dose. A hybrid tank if you like a cross between high and low energy methods. I don't believe in high light plants. Only plants that require more co2 or are naff at competing. Others couldn't care less. Anubias, most crypts, bicarbonate users like vals etc.

The liquid co2 will help the swords.

Do you have a full tank shot?

Awesome post

[Bert2oo1]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Left alone I mean not moved from one place to another. New cutting are fine to be planted anywhere though.

For every example in this hobby there is a counter claim or example. Plants just need the right balance based on their requirements. What suits one plant may not suit the one planted next to it so while Tropica says one thing there will always be someone else who says otherwise. There's no rule set in stone and plant health can be achieved many different ways.

My amazon swords are another example of this. I swear by a soil substrate. I added lots of red clay. As the substrate becomes anaerobic over time this enables plants to use lots of iron. I had a wealth of micro nutrients and added co2 and liquid carbon. Swords love the stuff. I wasn't overly religious with water changes and a was sporadic with macro dosing. The pH would drop to 5.9 at the height of co2 injection and a had a no filter media in the canister filter. I let the plants do the filtering. TDS was up yet this is when my shrimp began to carry eggs. I had ottos then and I still have them now.

Most of these practices would be frowned upon. Low pH, no biological filter media, lack of water changes, TDS creep, lazy nutrient dosing etc but the tank was speaking for itself. I was pulling out plants like this.

Attachment 298007

This plant you can see here on the right in the middle. Look at the lower leaves when it was first planted the notice the size increase as it adapts to the co2 and closer to the light.

Attachment 298008

The more I stopped messing the healthier the tank became. Co2 was the key. Lots of gas injection and liquid dosing. The nutrients were mainly being supplied by the soil, fish and fish food then buffered every few days with a macro dose. A hybrid tank if you like a cross between high and low energy methods. I don't believe in high light plants. Only plants that require more co2 or are naff at competing. Others couldn't care less. Anubias, most crypts, bicarbonate users like vals etc.

The liquid co2 will help the swords.

Do you have a full tank shot?

100% agree. My tank is a clear picture of this also. I have high lighting (very high compared to most) soil substrate and Im consistent with my macros and water changes. Hygro and ludwigi is almost impossible to keep up with in growth. Touches to top every week, however the 3 types of rotala I have in the tank that grow extremely slow. Clearly I have everything ludwigi and hygro need but obviously I'm missing something for the rotala. Classic case of all tanks are different and all species have different requirements.

It's trial and error to find what works your u and the environment u supply

[bhavik95]

Originally Posted by Caliban07

Left alone I mean not moved from one place to another. New cutting are fine to be planted anywhere though.

For every example in this hobby there is a counter claim or example. Plants just need the right balance based on their requirements. What suits one plant may not suit the one planted next to it so while Tropica says one thing there will always be someone else who says otherwise. There's no rule set in stone and plant health can be achieved many different ways.

My amazon swords are another example of this. I swear by a soil substrate. I added lots of red clay. As the substrate becomes anaerobic over time this enables plants to use lots of iron. I had a wealth of micro nutrients and added co2 and liquid carbon. Swords love the stuff. I wasn't overly religious with water changes and a was sporadic with macro dosing. The pH would drop to 5.9 at the height of co2 injection and a had a no filter media in the canister filter. I let the plants do the filtering. TDS was up yet this is when my shrimp began to carry eggs. I had ottos then and I still have them now.

Most of these practices would be frowned upon. Low pH, no biological filter media, lack of water changes, TDS creep, lazy nutrient dosing etc but the tank was speaking for itself. I was pulling out plants like this.

Attachment 298007

This plant you can see here on the right in the middle. Look at the lower leaves when it was first planted the notice the size increase as it adapts to the co2 and closer to the light.

Attachment 298008

The more I stopped messing the healthier the tank became. Co2 was the key. Lots of gas injection and liquid dosing. The nutrients were mainly being supplied by the soil, fish and fish food then buffered every few days with a macro dose. A hybrid tank if you like a cross between high and low energy methods. I don't believe in high light plants. Only plants that require more co2 or are naff at competing. Others couldn't care less. Anubias, most crypts, bicarbonate users like vals etc.

The liquid co2 will help the swords.

Do you have a full tank shot?

Hi there thanks for the reply that was great!
Sorry for the late reply
You say you add red clay to the tank is that the same as adding red clay peats under the plants?

As like you said about water changes I'm not that religious on water changes either I tend to do it maybe every 2-3 weeks

Those plants of your are looking great! I wonder if i'll ever get mine to look that's good! And that why sometimes it puts me off my tank and it never looks great plants esp

Here a full shot of the tank

[bhavik95]

Also I was thinking of getting some KNO3 as this would be a good place to start seeing this is the deficiency I have with the yellow of leaves and curling and stuff but was wondering what would be a better dosing pattern el weekly or el daily
This is the calculations that have gotten for both

[brendenscott]

What is your nitrate level at? That will tell you if you even need kno3. You want usually 10-30ppm. If in that range you do not need to dose kno3