Beautiful Scape vs. Sustainable Scapes ??

[dapellegrini]

I am preparing to tear down and redo my tank and am pouring over tank photos from ADA competitions, T. Amano's books, RateMyFishTank.com, some of Tom Barr's tanks, others on this board, etc...

Having maintained a high-tech, high-maintenance tank now since September, I have come to a few realizations and I now see all of these gorgeous Aquascapes very different than I used to. I see someone do a beautiful hedge with R. Rotundafolia and think "that's gonna be a mess in a week", or a great area of layered stem plants with wonderful use of colors and shadows and think, "that will look good for about two hours", etc.

I guess the epiphany was more that these gorgeous tank photos are only of a short, ideal point in time, often times with tons of prep, specifically for the photograph(s). Most seem unsustainable for any extended period of time, without weekly tear down and rework... As a novice with plants, I guess I assumed that everyone just snapped a few shots of their tanks on a slow Wednesday, while home sick... LOL

So, not to belabor my point... Has anyone on this board been able to find a good balance with Beauty and Sustainability? I am not suggesting a low or no upkeep setup. Just wondering how others who have been doing this for a long time have dealt with this dilemma of mine.

I am thinking it really all boils down to what types of plants you use, what dimension tank(s) you maintain, what lighting you have, what arrangement/scape you create etc... Next to each gorgeous photo, I would love to see the maintenance schedule required and the lifespan (total days until the scape has to be torn down).

I can't be the only one...

 

[Jchillin]

I can't be the only one...

Nope, you are not the only one. Fact is (and you should know this since you've had a few months to see it yourself), plants need constant care (trimming, clipping, moving, etc) so often that any particular scape captured in time (a photo) will never look exactly the same again.

I personally equate all of the AGA contestants photos "works of art". Or, more simply: "Look at what I just did". I keep a planted tank for the benefit of the fish. Some of these fish wreak havoc on the plants (not because they eat them but because they like to relax on the leaves thereby crushing them).

You won't see large tank busting fish in one of those truly amazing looking planted tanks now will you?

 

[dapellegrini]

Ya, that's why I had to get rid of my clown loaches. They didn't eat anything, but they loved to break things...

I am actually thinking I enjoy the plants and inverts more than the fish... I am very happy I went high-tech, just pondering my options moving forward. I would love to find the fusion of beauty and sustainability in the world of Aquascaping...

 

[DocOc]

This is a great topic. I have felt the same way, working on a 'scape and thinking that it looked good, but not like the mind blowers that you see on the board from time to time.

My approach right now is patience. I have a big sword in the middle of my 55G that has been steadily growing and accumulating leaves. My other plants are a little crazy and out of control, but once the sword is big enough, I will be able to work around it as a centerpiece. I don't have any "carpet" plants because I'm afraid I won't be able to maintain them properly.
Everything but the sword are there to cover the back and create a forest for the fish. These are easily trimmed and hacked back like anacharis (sp?).

 

[rkilling1]

That's what you get with EI and high light. You are super charging your plant growth.

If you want to slow things down, then lower your light and CO2 injection.

Look at Amano's tanks, he doesn't use that much light and his CO2 is no where near 30 PPM. With the lower light and CO2, you will have to cut back on ferts aswell. I believe Amano keeps his NO3's around 1 PPM and his PO4's nearly undetectable.

Lowering your light and CO2 will allow you to maintain that 'look' you have created for a longer period of time. It will also allow you to limit your NO3's which allows the reds to come out.

 

[dapellegrini]

I believe (but may be wrong) that Amano's method uses Aqua Soil and Power Sand to provide most of the nutrients via the roots instead of the water column. Then he has the 1,2,3 step liquids for micros and PO4.

I know that cutting back on lights will slow the plant growth, but as you back the other elements down (dosing and CO2) I think you increase your odds of having serious algae problems, depending on uptake rates, etc. If you make a serious study of the specific plants you are going to use, I believe you can accurately reduce these factors, but that is as much an art as a science, from what I gather.

Even with cut backs in these areas, I still find that many aquascapes that I see are more fantasy than anything, in the sense that the composer often uses plants in ways that cannot be sustained for any duration of time. Using R. Rotundfolia as a short, organized, tidy boarder for instance, against a backdrop of slower-growing plants, or layering different stem plants, seem more like recipes for headache or setup for a photo shoot than a sensible layout. These often make for gorgeous pictures, but tend not to be practical or sustainable.

I am all for a bit of work every weekend, just exploring my options as I go about (hopefully) upgrading my aquascape with a complete teardown and rebuild. I understand that all scapes have a lifespan, a number of days, months or years before it must be torn down... I am trying to understand the main differences and contributing factors to scape longevity.

Here is what I am thinking right now:

- Tank dimensions & Plant types - perhaps using 24" depth will allow stems to grow out, without reaching the surface? Other obvious mismatches like a sword in a 20g, etc.

- Lighting and photo period - For balancing growth, etc...

- Composer's mental stability - how often you feel like you have to screw with the tank in question

- Other ?

 

[Peyton]

I am in the same boat. I started my 40gal back in june and it grew for about 3 months then it became "perfect" to me. Then of course the plants continued to grow, started shading the other plants which then started to die off or drop leafs. The scape basically just dissolved into a bunch of plants growing in a tank. I have not been able to get it back to that "perfect" state since.

 

[Glenc]

Great thread, I know exactly how you feel, I've been doing the high light tank thing for a year, have had a couple of real nice scapes, but they don't last. They peak for a couple of weeks, then grow out. I am going to be moving shortly and am going to set up multiple tanks with different conditions and plants, trying to find that sustainable scape as well. I think rkilling1 is right on with lowering light levels to slow things down. Problem is I've ran less light and always go back to high light, tank just looks so much prettier with high light. When I get a few more tanks on the go I can keep my high light tanks for the fix I need and run a couple at lower light to learn where the ideal balance lies for me. Good luck finding yours

 

[hashbaz]

I don't know about you, but I am relatively new to high-tech, high-light and quickly found that I prefer slow growing plants instead of all the fast growers that I bought initially.

I know (all too well) what you are refering to with the rotala hedges. I will hack the snot out of it. Then 2 two weeks later it looks absolutely stunning. Another week and it is overgrown. Grrrrr.

 

[mr funktastic]

i think simplicity allows u to creat a sustainable scape. if u have a 50 different species of plants they all grow there own way. will get wild quickly and then u will loose the flow of the tank. amano and others use large groups of similiar plants. this allows u to let them grow while still keeping a blend and flow of plants. they use specific shapes in the tank to maintain the look. u focuse more on one point of the tank so the others parts can get a little more wild. alot of there tansk will have a centre peice design. wethere it be a peice of wood arranged a certain way or a path way leading towards the back of the tank. u will always focus on one aspect. as long as u keep thet area in focus and trimmed it will always look nice.

 

[Mosaic]

Good point, mr funktastic.

I believe the AGA contestants are judged on sustainability, but whether they mean "sustainability" as you do, or just something like no non-aquatics in the tank, I don't know. I would assume the judges are knowledgable enough to foresee that the rotala will quickly get out of hand, but the more important factor is the aquarist's skill in arranging, growing and trimming. Yes, its only a snap shot in time of the tank at its well-groomed peak, but I don't think that necessarily means that it's not beautiful at other points in time.
We have some really incredible aquascapes in member's tanks that have been set-up for far longer than it takes for a photo. It is very possible to keep your tank looking gorgeous as it grows, but you have to deal with it as it evolves. That's what I love about planted tanks - they are dynamic. It's fun and challenging for me to decide how to handle my plants as they exist at the moment. If it was just about finding a nice composition then keeping it as static as possible, then I might as well go plastic.

 

[dskidmore]

I like my 2.5 gallon for this very reason. It's small enough that it's not too much trouble to re-scape the whole thing if I don't like what's going on. Mostly though I just manage the ground cover, trim the moss, and my central pieces keep growing as they will. My big tank often gets neglected and run down, because I can't keep on top of the algae and growth and make it look the way I want.

 

[dapellegrini]

Well, I guess it is important to mention the two main factions in aquascaping, the natural style (i.e. Amano) and the dutch style. Amano is obviously also an art student, as he has a good grasp on layout/design, ratios, etc.

Mr. F - Are you suggesting that dutch style scape is simply not sustainable compared to a natural scape? Interesting thought. Thing is, for me, I am not so interested in having a tank composition of Java Ferns, Hair Grass, Willow Moss and Anubias, or rocks and riccia, etc LOL... I would also mention that many natural scapes that I have seen demonstrate the same issues of non sustainability that has been bothering me.

Mosiac - I would be interested to know more on the judging of the ADA tanks and what they might mean by sustainability... I also enjoy the dynamics of a planted tank presentation, but am forced to wonder how much time and effort a given tank represents. I could keep my tank looking roughly the same for a long period of time by frequently uprooting, sorting and trimming all my stem plants (in essence tear-down and rebuild), but with a larger tank, this can become 5-8 hours every weekend, which seems a bit much... Not to say that many don't do this, or at least for competition photos... Certainly not looking for a static presentation by any stretch, just something more sustainable than otherwise.

Case in point - Tom Barr has some shots up on his board and APC of a very large (can't remember, but maybe 3000g) tank that he setup for a client. In a presentation this large, I believe you would have little or no issues with trimming, as you could plan your scape around the adult plant sizes. Scaling down to something more reasonable, I wonder how much of the problem of sustainability centers on eventual plants size vs tank dimensions... Perhaps this is where Amano really does well with many smaller type plants, keeping them proportional to their environment...

My mind boggles.

 

[drobertson]

Dan,
Let me start by saying I realize that you and the members of this site have a lot more experience with planted tanks, and with out your knowledge and assistance, not to mention plants, my tanks would not look like they do today. So Thank You.

The ever changing plants, and conditions in my tanks are what makes me love the planted tanks. I like being able to look at a tank, and seeing something different each time, something small or large that you did not see before.

I do believe that you are right about Amano scaling his plants to the size tank, Something that I am trying to do now with a 20 gal.

And I guess this would be my point, we know of countless different types of aquatic plants out there, some we know a lot about and some we do not. there have to be many that as full grown specimens they would fit our individual tanks. To me the challenge has become trying to find the right plants so that I am not having to trim all the time, and a balance to my systems.

We have all seen before and after photos in threads on this site, and at times I think the before picture was a lot nicer then the after, and all the work that went in to it. Do we tend to overwork our aquascapes? Just a thought.

 

[mr funktastic]

Mr. F - Are you suggesting that dutch style scape is simply not sustainable compared to a natural scape?

actually no. quite the opposite. i believe any tank can be sustained based on how it is put together. when they plant there tanks, either dutch or natural, they select plants based on how they will blend. they also plant in mass quantities. when they plant in such large quantities it eliminates the amout of trimming. the plant simply has no where to grow but up casue of the compact design. meaning that all there trimming consists of is topping and side shoot trimming. and they choose multiple plants with similiar shapes/sizes and growth patters so when it starts to grow out all the different areas do it in a similair pattern. u will also noticed that in most of the award winnign tanks they always hide the bottom areas with well placed wood, rocks and other plant species. this allows the bottom of the plant to loose some leaves and messy roots to be hidden. for example they will place a small compact crypt infrom of a large grouping of rotala. this hide the dieing leaves on the bottom and wild roots that naturally occur. most aquariest will simply plant large groups of plants without the though that if it has room to spread it will. casue up to get more off shoots and tangled plants. i read an article on how amano sets up his tanks. he sets then up with the tanka quarter full. this allows him to firmly position the plants in any desired location. when he fills the tank it causes the substarte to compact and hold the plants firmly. he then spends the next few hours untangleing plants and trimming to the shape as necessary. unfortunatly this is un realistic to most of us since we will not be purchasing hundreds of stems of each plant that we plan to have. most of us will prefer to buy a few stems then watch them grow and cut and replant over months. what he does basically is like purchasing a complete tank. u buy it then u are done. all u get out of the experience is maintence afterwards. sorry this was so long. i hope it made sense though.

 

[zenkatydid]

really interesting post! i have not yet tried the high light set up, and i find most days i am pining for one - purely for the variety of plants that i cannot grow now. but even on my medium-low light setup, i need to prune my fast growers every week. i have started to get my rotala in line recently by doing what funk mentioned - planting the stems, then just trimming the tops off about halfway down when they get too tall, and either chuck or replant. this makes my stems get bushier, and maintains the patch of plant as is without major replanting. i am still working on hiding the messy roots, though

 

[dapellegrini]

Ya, my pruning skills may not be top drawer... I wish I could go take a class on this kind of stuff and be done with it... The latest Style of ADA catalog has some nice step-by-step instructions to replicate some of Amano's popular layouts. Certainly nice to see this additional detail...

So, as an update, here are the conclusions that I am coming to:

- Plant Selection vs Tank Size (and species) - a critical consideration in sustainability of a scape. What make this even more difficult is that it is typically much harder to come by the smaller plants, like those that Amano uses, in the LFS...
- Trimming - Another skill that I think I lack, with proper understanding of each plant and better trimming you can also significantly extend the life of a scape... Perhaps I should breakdown and buy the ADA trimming set... Just so spendy for what it is...
- Balance lighting and dosing - keep the plant growth to a healthy minimum...
- Start with a good hardscape - I think one of the things that really makes a tank stand out is the hardscape... The right use of rocks or DW in combination with plants can really make it pop, though I'm not sure whether this could effect longevity
- Have a play tank - I am thinking that if I had a smaller play tank that was easier to teardown and rework, I might be less likely to want to completely rearrange the larger tank, assuming of course that the larger tank is looking good...

Anything else I should add to the list?

 

[drobertson]

I have to agree with you, I think that the Plant Selection vs Tank Size is the primary consideration to create a sustainable tank.

2nd, would be the Hardscape, thinking of what plants you are going to use to play off of it.

As for your pruning skills, I wish I could do as good of job as you.

Working with the smaller tanks now, I think will only help me when I set up my big one.

The learning process, and the knowledge of the different plant species. To me this is the most important thing that we can do for the planted tank community.