C02 headache

[fastfly48]

I don't think it has anything to do with being in the states or Australia. I've yet to find a single lfs here that has even a basic understanding of what it takes to raise aquatic plants.

Lucky I have you guys then hu!

As far as ferts go, nitrates are the ones that I seem to need to dose the most. The reason most of us dose dry ferts as compared to Flourish is the expense. A little bit of KNO3 (which is found in stump remover), goes a long long way.

I have like no nitrate in my water hey. Very minimal.
Can you overodes it? Well, is it easy to over does? How much would i need?...

Personally, if I were you Ry, I would email Greg Watson and see if he'll ship to Australia. It's just so much more economical than using Flourish. JMO

How?

Many thanks.
Ry.

ps. haha that didn't work well
Sorry. your going to have to read your quote...

 

[Purrbox]

For the Flourish line of ferts you will want the following:
Flourish Nitrogen (Nitrates)
Flourish Phosphorus (Phosphates)
Flourish Potassium (Potassium)
Flourish Comprehensive (Micros including iron)

These do get rather expensive over time, especially when you have a larger tank. This is why we so often suggest switching to dry ferts. They're a lot less money for the same thing. Products like Flourish are a great starting place though, and provide an excellant way to get a feel for dosing ferts. In addition, the empty bottles are great for mixing your own fertilizer solutions if and when you decide to switch to dry ferts.

 

[BrianNY]

I just sent an email to Gregg Watson. I'll post his response.

 

[BrianNY]

and Greg Watsons response is...............

he will ship anything except KNO3 anywhere in the world.

 

[fastfly48]

You guys are all champs.

I think my first step will be getting this Kh right/safe, I've got the baking soda so I think I'll go out and get that 5 gallon bucket to make life easier

Once that's cool I can start with the dry ferts.
Chemical shop it is. Liking the look of the stump remover becasue I have minal amounts of nitrate and Id' guess barely any pottasium.
Surely they come in different concerntrations though? Once I've got it I'll post it's stats...

Sorry, I never caught who this Gregg Watson is?
Sounds like a great guy if he can ship stuff overseas cheap thouh
Think I"ll stay in my own backyard for now though.

Once again, many many thanks. You've all been a huge help.
Cheers,
Ryland.

ps. I'll keep you posted on the progress!

 

[sherry]

one thought to anyone considering crushed coral.. in my 35 gallon tank.. a teaspoon of crushed coral in a mesh bag in my filter raises my 1.5 kh to 3 deg kh consistently.

a handful is a lot of crushed coral, especially in our acidic tanks!!!


with my teaspoonful, I not only avoid crashes, but I can still grow tonina

 

[fastfly48]

hmm...
What's tonia?

Just did it!
Did a pwc (25% = 5g =a bout 19L = two buckets)
Added 1/8th baking soda into the last bucket.
Did some water tests 20 minutes later and...
Kh: 4
Ph: 6.5

yikes. a bit drastic for my liking, but the fish are still all fine. Glad to have a Kh higher than 3 for a change though
this is great. Tmoro I might do the exact same thing again...
I've increased the C02 a smidge now too...

Any comments? I'm worried about the big swing in Ph and Kh...think I was a bit too generous with the baking soda. Could the fish still die? it's been half an hour now and there still ok so hopfully...

Thanks again.
Ryland.

 

[BrianNY]

Fish find it much easier to go from lower to higher pH than the other way around. Still, you should make the adjustment very gradually.

 

[fastfly48]

hi all, just thouhgt I'd give an up-date...

Kh went from 3 to 4 in the first change, I think the Kh must have been in the really high 3 to start with...
BUT, since then I've done three 25% water changes each with 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda...but the Kh still hasn't reached 5. what the? :s
I guess I just need to add more hu? hmmm...

any comments?
cheers.
Ry.

 

[fastfly48]

another up-date...

My Kh is back down to 3 :s
It seems that getting a higher Kh in my tank is going to need an increased amount of Baking soda...
I'm dosing the 1/8 teaspoon of baking soda with a 25% water change everyother day...
Just put in 1/2 baking in with only about a 12% water change...
All baking soda is the same right? Like, I wouldn't have some weak baking soda hey?
Hmmm...
ok well, back ot the books...
Cheers.
Ry.


[edit]
ok, what the heck is going on!?

I'm adding baking soda to raise my Kh to raise my ph to raise my C02...
I've been naughty though, I've been dosing ALOT of baking soda becasue it's taking soooo long to raise the Kh etc...
I started small, but have been adding more and more in bigger amounts more frequently to the point where now...
I'm filling a small cup with water from my tank and dissolving 1/2 tea spoon of Baking soda in it, then pouring it all stright back into the tank. The water goes cloudy for a bit but it clears...and the fish are all fine, in fact they seem to enjoy it.
But the Ph AND Kh are not getting higher!? I don't understand?
Infact, the Ph seems to have droped?
totally confused!?
Hope someone can help.
Thanks in advance
Ryland.

 

[fastfly48]

oh please don't let me make it 4 posts in a row :s
I'm sure you guys could shed some light on this for me couldn't you?
Please?
Ry...ok I guess I'll keep talking to myself then...

[edit]
Big problems now.
Water is now cloudy and masses of hair and black beard alage are appearing everywhere!
SOS...
Kh is 5
Ph is 6.4
I'm thinking that the cloudy water is from the baking soda and the algae is from dosing too much ion a while back...
Help please...ha...ha...
Many thanks.
Ry.

 

[Purrbox]

With your KH at 5 and pH at 6.4 your CO2 is at 60ppm. It's gotten a bit high, so you'll probably want to dial it back slightly. Aim for a PH of 6.6 to 6.7 which would give you 30-38ppm of CO2.

Now to deal with the algae. What are your current NO3 and PO4 levels? What is your current Fertilizer dosing routine?

 

[Kilgore]

I noticed that no one has addressed the impact of sodium bicarbonate on pH... I have tap water very similar to fastfly48's, and it seems like I have to add a lot of baking soda to get the KH up to the level at which CO2 injection is possible (at least 4 dKH).... at which point my pH has gone from 6.6 to 7.4! Is there any way around this? And how will that pH difference affect the fish?

I realize that the CO2 will lower the pH gradually, but nonetheless, at the time that the water is added to the tank, there willl be a big difference. Is this a matter of concern?

 

[fastfly48]

Hi Guys!

ok as of 30 seconds ago my water has...
kh: 40ppm
Ph: 6.4
Nitrate: 0 (yikes! though it's NEVER been above 0-5...what do I do? dose it I guess...but why are my nitrates so very low/non-existant?)
nitrite and ammonia 0 as normal

Those give a C02 level of about 26. good. Not as high as I'd like but...
But I still have this horrid hair and blackbeard algae...
The cloudyness is gone, must have been the baking soda settling down.

Just a side note.
I'm finding it quite hard to really tell acurately what my water parametres are...
I have a test kit with the dropper bottles, so it's not a srip test.
"Freashwater Master Test Kit"...Aquarium pharmaceuticals...Canada.
You follow the instructions and then compare the colour of the solution to the colours on the lables....but the colour of the solution changes in different light and backgrounds...
Hmmm. The main big iffy is the Ph. The others are easy. Yeah so just a side note...

Ok well that;'s it.
Please ask if you need more info about the tank to help my fight this algae
Cheers.
Ry.

 

[Purrbox]

The NO3 bottoming out on you is definately a big part of your algae problems. Get ahold of some Flourish Nitrogen or KNO3 and start dosing.

You didn't address PO4 levels or your dosing routine. I guess this means you haven't picked up a PO4 kit yet and aren't dosing anything. If this is the case, pick up the following asap. If you are bottoming out on one nutrient, you are likely already or soon will be bottoming out on others.

Flourish Comprehensive, Tropica Master Grow, or CSM+B
Flourish Nitrogen or KNO3
Flourish Potassium or K2SO4
Flourish Phosphorus or KH2PO4
PO4 Test Kit

 

[7Enigma]

fastfly48,

Your KH results are very difficult for me to understand. Baking soda addition is directly proportional to KH. I'd be very concerned that there is something in your water affecting the liquid test. I would do some water changes slowly over the next couple of days and dose baking soda to the level at which SHOULD give you the proper KH (4-7degrees).

 

[fastfly48]

Purrbox...
I have no idea what my PO4 levels are. Never dosed phosphate, all I knew was that too much phosphate = big trouble...but that too little was bad too...
However, I have dosed some chelated ferrite liquid (organic ion complex).
I think that this has caused some problems. I got it when I was just starting out, the guys at the lfs said this would be all I needed...haha yeah right. Now's the time to make a change.
I need to start dosing nitrate and others yes...

7Engima...
Yes, the Kh results have perplexed me too.
I was adding ALOT of the stuff...way too much probably.
I shall keep up with the water changes though.

So where are all of my nitrates going?
Why do others that don't dose it have such high nitrate levels?

Many thanks for the help.
Must be quite alarming to find someone as un-prepared (for want of a better word) as i.
cheers.
Ry.

 

[7Enigma]

Ry,

Like I said before, something is screwy, but you have one easy way to make sure things are fine. Just dose the tank for what will give you the results you want. If you have tap water with 1degree KH, add baking soda for what would give you a KH of 4-7degrees (gradually of course). At every water change make sure the water you add is of the same degree and your tank HAS to be at that level regardless of what the test is telling you.

Same can be said for the other ferts EXCEPT nitrAte, as this is the only nutrient that can harm the fish. Everything else if not in the proper amount will cause algae problems, but only the nitrAte will actually harm them if in high enough concentration. Now I don't mean go dump a cup of fertilizer in, but for the most part you CAN do a planted tank blind, it might just take a while to find out exactly what is needed and what is not.

HTH,

justin

 

[Purrbox]

There's a variety of reasons that tanks will go through differing amounts of NO3.

Quantity of Fish
How much you Feed (Overfeed)
Quantity of Plants
Growth Rate of Plants

Basically your fish aren't producing enough waste to keep up with the amount of NO3 that your plants are consuming.

 

[fastfly48]

Many thanks guys

That's cleared ALOT up for me.
Making the water I add with my water changes the Kh I want is a great idea.
Done.

Nitrate is the only fert that can harm the fish? So then I guess ammonia and nitrite aren't considered ferts then hey? haha silly question...

I'm looking into getting some stump remover (potasium nitrate).
I thought that if I dosed my water for my water changes up to say 20ppm that wolud be ok? So with the water changes, the new water being added with have a Kh or 4-7 (baking soda) and a nitrate reading of about 20ppm, oh and water conditioner.
So it's like I'm creating a water cocktail for my tank.
Make sense?

Purrbox...
So does overfeeding reduce nitrate levels?
My plant are in good health other than the algae...
The growth is great, esp. the wisteria...that stuff is going nuts!
So does this low nitrate level mean that I could add more fish? Best not to I guess...

Once again, thanks again.
Ryland.