Can somone help

[VOZIE]

45g tank with filter built in to hood.
Stock is:- 9 neons
3 runny nose
4 silver tip tetras
2 bristle nose pleco
1 tiger pleco
1 sail fin pleco
2 cherry barb
3 platy
1 gourmi
2 panda Corey
2 pepper corey
3 albino Corey
2 glow light tetras
2 clown loach
5 x ray tetra
2 widows
1 elephant nose
1 rainbow tetra

Ammonia is 0
Nitrate is 0
Nitrite is 0

I have a problem with fish dying all the time. I can't see any reason as to why it's happening. I have taken out all the fish that I feel could have caused a problem but still they keep dying. It's almost one a day. The tank is planted with sand substrate. I do my water changes every week with out fail. I feed a mixture of flakes pellets and blood worm and feed twice a day. No food is left behind. My neons are just dying at a rapid rate. It's not only getting expensive but it's destroying my love for the hobby. Can someone please help me out. Also I can't seem to fine the remains of some of the fish.

 

[jetajockey]

Hi. Seems like there are multiple things going on here. How long has the tank been running?

What are you testing your water with?

Feeding twice a day is unnecessary and could have some impact on the issue at hand.

Your stock seems to be very mismatched and overstocked. Things like clown loaches and sailfin plecos get way too large for that size tank, or even a tank twice the size. Also, many of the schoolers that either need to be moved or filled in. I would break down the list and pick your favorites first and then work around them .

 

[VOZIE]

I had more shoal fish but they just keep dying. The thing that confuses me is that not all of one type of fish is dying. It's random. The neons on the other hand are dropping like flys. The tank has been set up a few months now. About 4 months. My water parameters dont seem bad. I am using test tubes with drops and not test strips.

 

[jetajockey]

You should have a nitrate reading if the biofilter is working properly.

Random deaths can be somewhat difficult to diagnose, but the first concern for me would be the sheer amount of fish in that size of tank.

 

[VOZIE]

The lack of nitrate is due to a small miss hap where a large amount of water went on the floor so it ended up being a massive water change. How many fish would you suggest and do u think that any of the fish in the tank would be responsible for killing other fish.

 

[jetajockey]

Given that it's a 45g, I'd stick with 2-3 schooling groups for mid/top, a group of cories for the bottom, and maybe a centerpiece type fish or a few loner type fish to fill in the rest. I'd definitely get away from those plecos, if you really want a pleco go with a BN or two, they stay small.

 

[vitacrux]

Other things that would be helpful to know is what filter you are using, do you notice any odd behavoir from the fish (flashing, scraping against rocks decor, swimming vertically, etc). I would retest the water so we can get an idea of where your nitrates are at, because with four pleco's in there, its got to be like a tornado of waste.

 

[plecoking]

That's a lot of fish you have for that tank, need extra water changes. I can't say too much about that, I use to have 28+ fish in a 10 gallon. Water was always clear and good parameters and healthy fish because I did frequent water changes.

I wouldn't be too worried about what size fish might be in the future. It will take a few years before they outgrow the tank, by then you can decide on what you want to do with them.

As long as you do frequent water changes (TLC) and this one is important, arrange the decorations, plants, etc to maximize space, your fish will thrive.

 

[jetajockey]

I wouldn't be too worried about what size fish might be in the future. It will take a few years before they outgrow the tank, by then you can decide on what you want to do with them.

Sorry but I disagree. It takes less than that for the fish to outgrow this size tank, and given that it's overstocked already, they should be the first to go.
Just leaving them in there and not worrying about it till they get larger is not a very responsible approach and doesn't deal with the issue. What's better, deal with a small problem now, or put it off and have a large problem later?

Most people don't keep a fish for a few years and then just easily get rid of them as they get too large, they get attached, and it can be difficult to find a proper home for these larger species. Keeping with this current stocking plan it would take a huge tank to accommodate them all, much larger than most people would be willing to get, so why not quell the problem in its infancy?

As long as you do frequent water changes (TLC) and this one is important, arrange the decorations, plants, etc to maximize space, your fish will thrive.

Maximizing space isn't going to make the tank any bigger, it's just way too small for the stock list.

 

[VOZIE]

I understand both points of view re stock. Putting that aside for a second the problem I have at the mo is that fish are dying. I need help identifying the reason why.

 

[Papagiorgio]

How long has the tank been running?
Is the tank cycled?

 

[VOZIE]

It's been running for a few months. Yes it's cycled.

 

[Johnstamos003]

What's your temperature? I would re-read directions to be sure you are properly testing for nitrate. Sounds like nitrate poisoning to me. Had similar problems when I was starting hobby 2 years ago. Was not testing properly and was grossly overstocked as well.

 

[plecoking]

Sorry but I disagree. It takes less than that for the fish to outgrow this size tank, and given that it's overstocked already, they should be the first to go.
Just leaving them in there and not worrying about it till they get larger is not a very responsible approach and doesn't deal with the issue. What's better, deal with a small problem now, or put it off and have a large problem later?

Most people don't keep a fish for a few years and then just easily get rid of them as they get too large, they get attached, and it can be difficult to find a proper home for these larger species. Keeping with this current stocking plan it would take a huge tank to accommodate them all, much larger than most people would be willing to get, so why not quell the problem in its infancy?

Maximizing space isn't going to make the tank any bigger, it's just way too small for the stock list.

I understand your points for sure, but it's all relative and no it's not cruel or irresponsible to look at it this way. It's true fish can take years to grow large, it really depends on the fish. I know some who had fish for a few years and it's big and others for the same time or more and not big.

I'm not going to judge this guy's tank, if he wants 46 fish in a 46 gallon tank and the fish are happy, nobody has a right to judge. Seriously though, yes the tank is over-stocked, you have two choices, water change and stay on top of it, get better filter or give some fish away. Own up to it which ever you decide. I know how to keep an over-stocked tank, it's possible. Maximizing space does in fact provide more swimming area which means happier fish.

Here's a good tip: I knew exactly what types of fish I wanted and which ones I didn't. I gave away fish that I no longer wanted and focused on getting a larger tank. Think about where you want to go with this fish keeping business, at some point you want to go bigger, trust me forget about 55 gallon, 75 should be the bare minimum for any serious fish keeper.

There are two types of fish hobbyists, the 10 gallon guy (aka novice) and the 75 gallon guy (aka the lifer)
Which is it going to be, only you can decide, but before you decide, you need to know how to take care of the tank you have first.

A few years is plenty of time to think about it, even 1 or 2 years is enough. It took me only six months to know. Personally I think if you value the fish now while it's small and the fish does outgrow later then you better own up to keeping it and upgrading to a large tank in the future (no excuses) . It's not too expensive once you get your feet wet.

Most of my fish will one day be monster fish (maybe), I"m not going to worry about it now. When the time comes I will upgrade but not until then and I do plan on keeping every one of them.

 

[VOZIE]

I am still newish to this hobby which has gripped me big time. Part of this is my problem as before now I have found my self over feeding my fish because I had brought flakes pellets bloodworms and others. My intention was to give a varied diet.

Choosing fish is difficult as they all have there stunning looks. I want them all is the truth. Apart from my plecs most of the fish in my tank are small and stay small with the exception of the clown loach. My aim was to have a busy tank with all types of tetra and a few other fish such as the clown loach. My corries serve a purpose although I have grown attached.

Anyone who comes on to this site looking for advise have no intention of being nasty to there fish. At worst they have been mis led or come in to problems.

More to the point I am still loosing fish here.

 

[jetajockey]

To the point, it's hard to narrow down what the issue is if there are no symptoms. If the fish have no visible signs of distress, no behavior traits, or anything else that can give a clue as to what the issue is, at that point I defer back to the basics. The tank having 0 nitrates is concerning, there should be a reading, even shortly after a large water change. Assuming the toxin level is a non-issue, there's only a few other things to go to, and that's chalking it up to bad stock from the pet store, or possible issues related to overstocking (which I brought up already). None of those fish on the list really stand out as incompatible due to aggressive nature, but when many fish are sharing a very limited space, there's no telling.

All I can say is keep doing frequent water changes, testing the water, and watch the tank closely to see the behavior of the fish to try to spot any aggression or illness. And rehome the ones that get huge, or plan to get a huge tank for them sooner rather than later.

 

[jetajockey]

I understand your points for sure, but it's all relative and no it's not cruel or irresponsible to look at it this way. It's true fish can take years to grow large, it really depends on the fish. I know some who had fish for a few years and it's big and others for the same time or more and not big.

I understand your point also, but you are failing to factor in stunting, which is cruel.

I'm not going to judge this guy's tank, if he wants 46 fish in a 46 gallon tank and the fish are happy, nobody has a right to judge.

Yes, actually, we do have a right to judge his tank, and anyone else that puts their tank in the spotlight to try to get some answers for issues. How else would we come to a possible answer to help the problem?

Seriously though, yes the tank is over-stocked, you have two choices, water change and stay on top of it, get better filter or give some fish away. Own up to it which ever you decide. I know how to keep an over-stocked tank, it's possible. Maximizing space does in fact provide more swimming area which means happier fish.

Keeping on top of water changes and getting good filters doesn't give you more swim space. Maximizing the swimming area would mean removing all decor/substrate completely, as it's all taking up water volume. Even still, it's not a solution to the problem, but a small bandaid. It definitely helps for the time being, but a more long term solution should be on the table.

A few years is plenty of time to think about it, even 1 or 2 years is enough. It took me only six months to know. Personally I think if you value the fish now while it's small and the fish does outgrow later then you better own up to keeping it and upgrading to a large tank in the future (no excuses) . It's not too expensive once you get your feet wet.

Most of my fish will one day be monster fish (maybe), I"m not going to worry about it now. When the time comes I will upgrade but not until then and I do plan on keeping every one of them.

The whole point of going over stocking plans with others is to help to get ideas of stocking options as well as figure out what will work best for the tank in the long term.


Giving the fish that you have an adequate sized home should be near the top of concerns as their caregiver. Clown loaches get very large, and are schoolers that do best in larger numbers, so just a group of 4-5 of those and a 1 1/2 ft sailfin pleco are going to need a 125g+ to really thrive in.

Most people get these fish without knowing that they reach these kind of size and require very large tanks, so I think it's important to inform them.

It would be nice if everyone was willing to undertake getting large tanks and properly homing these monster fish, as you call them, but unfortunately many don't have the means or desire to do so.

 

[VOZIE]

I see I may of started something. Thanks for all tge advise. Since starting this thread my stock has reduced although not in the way I would of wished. This thread seems to of adopted a moral theme which I would like to comment on.

I started fish keeping in November just gone. I am still new to the hobby. I have found that information on fish and this hobby is very easy to come by with Internet etc. However I think that slot of people would agree that the information contradicts itself a lot.
i.e fishless cycle or not.
Feed once a day or more. Some say twice a week.
That's just two of many.

It's common knowledge that fish shops mis lead people in order to secure a sale. Due to this I have no problem with my tank being judged and put in the spotlight. I believe most people come on to this site looking for advise. Might not be what they want to hear. The reason people do ask for advise is because they care for the fish that they have. If they are going wrong they need to know because if they are anything like me then loosing a fish is a horrible thing to happen. I don't like to think that I have dragged this poor fish home and placed it in a tank where it will die. Not only is it a waste of money but it's not in my being.

New comers to this hobby have no idea how gripping it is. Help advise and guidance is needed. More then that so is the truth.

Cheers for your help tho I will be taking a closer look at the chemistry and my stock.

 

[Johnstamos003]

Couldn't agree more - pleco's are a common fish sold off to newcomers as great tank additions and quickly become tank busters. Had very similar experiences when I got back into my childhood hobby 2 years ago. If I knew what I know now I never would have purchased or even thought of keeping certain fish. Sucks when you lose fish over mis-information that is prevalent in this hobby. I try to get information from 3 or more sources anymore.

 

[plecoking]

There is only ever 1 reason we do water changes, period! That's to keep the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates down. It's to keep the water clean for our fish to live in.

The only reason doing this is so difficult for beginners is because of all the hair brain exbirdy advice that makes something so simple so complicated. Beginners are so afraid they will mess it up because they didn't go to fish scientist academia and that they will be judged harshly by the fish cops.

Keep the tank clean and you will keep your fish alive. It's not as difficult as some make it out to be.

Do a water change, do several if you have to but keep the water clean. Feed once per day only and never over-feed. My tanks stay the same every week, water parameters "all-normal", test kit confirms and I only do a water change once a week. That's me, if your tank is dirty and your test kit shows high levels of ammonia-nitrites-nitrates and your losing fish, it's only because you failed to do the most important thing, change your water.