Changed my views on long term Excel use (In a positive way)

[jarrod0987]

I never planned to try Excel. I never even knew about it. I was visiting the Museum of Play On Rochester, NY a few years back and they had a tropical tank there. Was discussing things with the keepers and they were telling me how Excel had really helped the BBA situation and had made the plants grow faster and healthier. So I decided to run it with my 20 gal Tank. I did that for a year. Had some traces of BBA here and there but never really got rid of it all. Some periods had many WC and some had few WC. There was not any difference in plant or BBA growth. Spot treating the BBA with Excel did work but the dosage limit was so small it was not worth it.

Over time I came to various forums where the established belief is that Excel is really just re branded Glutoraldahyde. Sold as Metaricide normally. The MSDS talks about how toxic that stuff is. So there is a huge backlash against using Excel now in many forums. It turned out in the end that a Excel molecule is modified. I am sure Excel is still somewhat toxic but I know from studying organic chem briefly that even slight tweaks to a molecule makes a big big difference when it comes to toxicity. So we really don't know how toxic Excel is or is not. We know it is not really plain old glut. The smell of glut alone is enough to convince someone of that. Don't smell either one though. That is really bad.

So to continue, I decided when the bottle of excel was gone I would not renew it. For the 1st month nothing seemed different. Now in month 2 the amazon sword growth has slowed way down but holly crap speed to I think it's stuck speed. All the plants health is in decline and so the snails have started attacked the same plants they never harmed before. Some people believe snails only eat dying leaves. I buy it based on current observations. Most important is the BBA is really starting to spread out everywhere. So my belief that long term dosing of Excel had no effect on BBA unless applied directly to the BBA turned out to be false. I feel it is very fair to say it helps plant growth, health, and helps keep BBA from spreading but will not kill it off completely.

I don't mind being wrong or admitting it I think people learn more from me sharing my experiences and admitting when I find out I am wrong then from the same old propaganda. Thank you all for your interest.

 

[Delapool]

I think that would match my findings? Compared to co2 injection it is pretty useless but for helping plants and reducing BBA, I've kept up dosing. Long term use I must admit still worries me a little.

 

[Fresh2o]

The fact that this is a long time observation makes me appreciate your findings.
If Excel cost the same as Metricide 14 (per volume of active ingredient), then I would continue purchasing it. At this point, pressurized CO2 is the primary carbon source in my planted tank and glut is used as a supplement/short term BBA treatment.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[jarrod0987]

Part of the problem with CO2 is the big start up cost and also some people just don't feel comfortable with there tech ability. Refills may be tough for some living in rural areas as well. I think it is apples and snozzberries anyways.

 

[Delapool]

Oh for sure.

It's when I try calculating the co2 ppm equivalent I get a one-off daily dose of not very much from liquid carbon. Very rough of course as I'm waiting for one of the kids to take chemistry science.

So my discussion point is that is the focus on liquid glut (or derivative) providing a carbon source or is it more rounded than that or is it that as an algaecide this is its greatest use?

If it is more of an algaecide are there better alternatives? And safer??

So your findings are great, I'm just wondering what the secret benefit (or benefits) of glut is for plants.

 

[jarrod0987]

For the past year I was not convinced it was doing much for plant growth but for the last 2 months since I discontinued it my swords growth rate seems to have drastically slowed down. I think CO2 is safer for people but the risk is higher for fish. Excel is probably more of a people risk but overdosing can result in o2 depletion so hard to answer that. Same thing as gassing the fish if you ask me.

 

[Delapool]

Included some articles on this:

http://www.barrreport.com/forum/bar...866-how-much-co2-does-glutaraldehyde-give-you

http://www.barrreport.com/forum/bar.../225938-glutaraldehyde-is-not-a-carbon-source

From reading, it seems this question of what liquid carbon actually does started to appear several years ago. Could be wrong there.

My impression is that for fish at dosing up to say 3ppm it seems safe. Only a limited understanding though and based on some other reading. Regularly I will dose at 1 to 2ppm which is higher than normal dosing rates. 1ppm I feel is safe, not quite sure on 2ppm - still monitoring tank.

Page 11 of the article below notes below 5ppm it ceases to be microbiocidally active so perhaps this gives an upper limit.

If this translates to 5ppm or even 10ppm CO2 it's still a one-off dose. If interested in the articles, I'd definitely be interested in your (or anyone's else's) thoughts on this.

http://www.caiber.com/info/UCARCIDE CATALOGO.pdf

 

[jarrod0987]

I talked to Seachem about what is the concern about overdosing. They said it was that when you add excel to the water the bacteria break it down and they breath while they do it. It is carbon dosing in a way. So if you overdose the bacteria might reproduce like crazy and eat up all the oxygen. Just like if you added to much vodka or vinegar or sugar etc. So what you can get away with has a lot to do with how good your aeration is. I have been told by some public aquariums that do not wish to be named that when they implemented Excel it really helped get rid of the BBA but not entirely. After a few months they were advised that they could double the dose safely and that really knocked it back. TO be fair that tank still had some BBA when I saw it.

 

[FishayFishay]

I wanna touch on this subject(just to be involved lol) but I have noticed that using excel has helped some of my plants just take off out of nowhere and when I stopped dosing it about 2 months ago, everything slowed down, and got worse, and BBA got really bad. Honestly, I have the co2 setup(co2 tank and regulator and such) but just haven't had time/money to set it up properly. I need to get another bubble counter and order 4dkh solution with it ?. Also a proper diffuser. Such a hassle but I know it'll be worth it.