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Old 05-09-2007, 09:46 AM   #1
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CO2 Mix

a week or so ago, i picked up the Hagen Plant Grow System for my 10 gal planted, basically so i didn't have to hassle with a DIY system.

unfortunately, i can't get my sugar and yeast mix right. after about a week, no more bubbles are coming. would someone be able to recommend the specific amount of sugar and yeast for the container?

thanks for the help[/url]
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:33 PM   #2
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1/8tsp Yeast (Champagne Yeast recommended)
1tsp Baking Soda (optional, half or eliminate if you have hard water)
3/8cup Sugar
3/4 Liter tepid Water (hot water will kill the yeast)
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Old 05-09-2007, 03:37 PM   #3
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I would add 3-4 tsp protein drink mix, and 1 tsp mollases to that mix. As for water, put as much as you can based on your container size.
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Old 05-09-2007, 03:38 PM   #4
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You add sugar to the bottom ridge of the container.
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Old 05-09-2007, 08:14 PM   #5
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So long as you followed directions of box it should work, check to make sure everything is tight and fit snug.
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Old 05-09-2007, 09:11 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezmo
I would add 3-4 tsp protein drink mix, and 1 tsp mollases to that mix. As for water, put as much as you can based on your container size.
That sound as though it might be drinkable after fermenting
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Old 05-09-2007, 09:16 PM   #7
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I use purrbox's recipe with great success... one thing I do that I know helps is to sterilize EVERYTHING to kill any bacteria which would kill your yeast. I start with her recipe and do this:

1) Use a tiny bit of rubbing alcohol to sterilize my bottle, funnel, measuring cup, mixing cup, and whatever else comes in contact with my mix.

2) Let the alcohol evaporate as much as you can, and boil water(yeast is resistant to alcohol somewhat so don't panic).

3) Add the sugar to your bottle, and pour in steaming water to sterilize the sugar... add too much, and you will melt your bottle!

4) Put some steaming water in a mixing cup (little bigger than a shot glass) and add a teaspoon of sugar... let it become tepid, and add the yeast. Stir this with a toothpick or something every so often to get it foaming and full of oxygen.

5) Add the rest of the water to the bottle, and wait for this to become tepid as well. Pour in your foaming mixture. Try not to let the mixture get too cold while the water int he bottle cools (this can take over an hour to cool enough so as not to kill the yeast).

A popular misconception is to add a lot of sugar, which any baker or brewer will tell you is much worse for a mixture than too little sugar. Using the above method, I can get a one liter bottle to produce c02 for almost one month in a room which is always 75 degrees, but I change one bottle out of the two I use every 2-3 weeks, and I am experiencing EXCELLENT results... THANKS, Purrbox!!! I highly recommend this method!
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Old 05-10-2007, 06:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zezmo
I would add 3-4 tsp protein drink mix, and 1 tsp mollases to that mix. As for water, put as much as you can based on your container size.
why would u add 3-4tsp protein drink mix and mollases ????
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Old 05-10-2007, 06:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrbox
1/8tsp Yeast (Champagne Yeast recommended)
1tsp Baking Soda (optional, half or eliminate if you have hard water)
3/8cup Sugar
3/4 Liter tepid Water (hot water will kill the yeast)
couldnt ya also use fleischmans yeast found in most grocery stores ??

where could i find champagne yeast ??

i would like to try ur method cuz the red seas co2 mix is garbage and doesnt produce co2 like it says it does.. hmm

now i have hard water .. i guess i wud have to use the entire 1tsp of baking soda ?? someone said i can use a tablet of tums..

does it matter what kind of sugar ?? i mean can it be regular everyday sugar ??

im gonna try to make my own co2 mix b4 i make the decision to put the low light back on .. i wanna give it one more shot..

oh yea !!! how long does that mixutre usually last for ???
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Old 05-10-2007, 09:02 AM   #10
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Thanks for all the advice everyone. The bubbles started picking up and are steadier about 3 to 4 per minute (it's a 10 gal tank).

I'll be sure to try some of these mixes next time.
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Old 05-10-2007, 11:00 AM   #11
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The protein mix and molasses provide extra food for the yeast and will increase both the amount of CO2 produced and the length of time that the mix will last.

The reason that I recommend Champagne Yeast is that it has good CO2 production and is alchohol tolerant. This means that you will get good CO2 levels for longer. With a standard mix using Champagne Yeast the mix will easily last 3-4 weeks compared to the 1-2 weeks of Fleischmans Yeast. If you have a store in your area that sells supplies for making Beer and Wine, they should sell this yeast. Otherwise you can order it online at stores like eBrew.com.

Since you have hard water you WOULDN'T want to use the entire 1tsp of Baking Soda. Either half or eliminate it.

Use everyday white sugar, no special sugar required.

The length of time that a mix last varies on a variety of variables some of which I described earlier in this post. Some things to keep in mind. Running multiple bottles to generate CO2 and alternating when you change out the mix will help to keep CO2 levels steadier and reduce the risk of BBA and other problems. If you insist on only running one bottle you'll want to change it out before the mix is completely done to help minimize the degree of the fluctuation.
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Old 05-11-2007, 06:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purrbox
The protein mix and molasses provide extra food for the yeast and will increase both the amount of CO2 produced and the length of time that the mix will last.

The reason that I recommend Champagne Yeast is that it has good CO2 production and is alchohol tolerant. This means that you will get good CO2 levels for longer. With a standard mix using Champagne Yeast the mix will easily last 3-4 weeks compared to the 1-2 weeks of Fleischmans Yeast. If you have a store in your area that sells supplies for making Beer and Wine, they should sell this yeast. Otherwise you can order it online at stores like eBrew.com.

Since you have hard water you WOULDN'T want to use the entire 1tsp of Baking Soda. Either half or eliminate it.

Use everyday white sugar, no special sugar required.

The length of time that a mix last varies on a variety of variables some of which I described earlier in this post. Some things to keep in mind. Running multiple bottles to generate CO2 and alternating when you change out the mix will help to keep CO2 levels steadier and reduce the risk of BBA and other problems. If you insist on only running one bottle you'll want to change it out before the mix is completely done to help minimize the degree of the fluctuation.
holy crap .. 1-2 weeks for fleshmans .. hmm ..

i was looking at sum of the diagrams for diy bottles ... a few of them had a " gas seperator " wher the main bottle .. has a tube running into a small bottle then another tube into the diffuser .. is that smaller bottle needed ?

ill be using a powerhead diffuser with a ventrail valve attached .. is there a better kind of diffusing system to use ?? i got it from red sea ..
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Old 05-11-2007, 08:12 PM   #13
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I forgot to mention earlier that I am using Red Star yeast from the supermarket, not champagne yeast... I just took a peek at my three week old mix in it's bottle, and I see plenty of bubbles. I repeat: 3 to 4 weeks per mix for me, no molasses, no protein additives, and no sodium bicarbonate.
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Old 05-11-2007, 08:51 PM   #14
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I forgot to mention earlier that I am using Red Star yeast from the supermarket, not champagne yeast... I just took a peek at my three week old mix in it's bottle, and I see plenty of bubbles. I repeat: 3 to 4 weeks per mix for me, no molasses, no protein additives, and no sodium bicarbonate.
ya i seen the red star brand at publix ....... but today i found out theres a homebrew wine and beer shop .. and they just happen to see champagne and wine yeast .. both brands are red sea .....

which is better the wine or champ yeast....
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:20 PM   #15
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Go with the Champagne Yeast, it's got the best balance of CO2 production vs alcohol tolerance.

The gas separator bottle isn't abosolutely necessary, but will help to ensure that the CO2 mix doesn't accidently make it's way into your tank. If you use the Champagne Yeast, it's less of an issue since it tends to sink to the bottom of the water unlike most other Yeasts which tend to float.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:41 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Purrbox
Go with the Champagne Yeast, it's got the best balance of CO2 production vs alcohol tolerance.

The gas separator bottle isn't abosolutely necessary, but will help to ensure that the CO2 mix doesn't accidently make it's way into your tank. If you use the Champagne Yeast, it's less of an issue since it tends to sink to the bottom of the water unlike most other Yeasts which tend to float.
ok ... 1 more question ... i hope im not turning this co2 issue into a science project .. but after i add all the ingredints ( spelling ) am i suppose to shake the mix ?? if so , how long and do i shake kinda slow or real fast ..

i added the flourite over the weekend and took all the old gravel out .. now i understand why they say to rinse it first .. but anwyayz i took all the bba infested plants out and put them in a bucket of water with some excel and tap water .. and the bba didnt die... but the bba on the decor turned red while it was out of the water for about a full day ..
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Old 05-14-2007, 09:24 AM   #17
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I wouldn't shake it so much as just capping it and then gently turning upside down a few times to get everything mixed well.

Turning red is a sign that the BBA is dying. Once it turns red many fish and other critters will actually eat it.
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Old 05-14-2007, 06:36 PM   #18
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I wouldn't shake it so much as just capping it and then gently turning upside down a few times to get everything mixed well.

Turning red is a sign that the BBA is dying. Once it turns red many fish and other critters will actually eat it.
but ya wouldnt have any idea why it didnt turn red after leaving it soaking in the excel dip ?? maybe i didnt use enuf ..
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Old 05-17-2007, 12:40 PM   #19
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do be aware that the Hagen system is just a boxed DIY setup.

store bought bread yeast works fine...I suggest getting a little jar of it, rather than the 3-packs since the jar seals better...and store it in the fridge.
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:50 PM   #20
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There are 2 factors that effect the term of the fermentation process. Simply put, these are food and poison. Yeast is a living culture that feeds on sugars. The form of the sugar is mostly irrelevant. Granulated, molasses, power drink, what ever. All simply provide the food source, sugar. Poison is one of the products of fermentation being ethyl alcohol. The CO2 process using yeast is simply wine making without the resultant wine product. As the fermentation process proceeds the ethyl alcohol level rises in the must. in addition to alcohol the fermentation process produces CO2 (yea) and heat, The temperature a must that is used for making wine is monitored very carefully. As the temperature of the must rises the pace of the fermentation increases which can have an adverse effect on the wine quality. So the goal of the aguarist that is using the fermentation process to produce CO2 for injection into an aquarium is to have precisely the amount of sugar in the must to get exactly to the point where the alcohol kills the yeast. this is obviously a difficult target to hit. Most of the recipes call for 2 cups of sugar in a 2L pop bottle filled to the top of the label. To check the situation upon the halting of the fermentation process, stick your finger in the must and taste it. If it is sweet there is sugar (food) left and you can likely reduce the sugar per batch. If it is bitter, then the ethyl alcohol has terminated the fermentation and you are on the money. The pace of the fermentation is essentially a factor of temperature. A low must temperature will result in a slower fermentation and conversely a higher temperature will speed up the fermentation process. Therefore, if one is able to regulate the temperature of the must one will be able somewhat regulate the CO2 production/injection rate. This can result in a far more efficient use of the CO2. A CO2 level over 30PPM is likely a waist of CO2 and will not likely effect the fish therefore the ability to control production through the controlling of the temperature of the must will likely enhance the efficiency of the fermentation and injection process.
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